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What gameplay features would you want in the next 2D Sonic game?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Jordan91, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. foXcollr

    foXcollr

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    Some thoughts...

    1. Count me in on the Amy Club, or maybe an original woman character, idk. I always thought Amy looked kinda goofy with her big hammer in rom hacks, but I'm sure Evening Star/Team Mania could design her in a cool, refreshing way.

    2. I understand that the one-button design aids simplicity, but I think they could definitely expand on that if they want to add some depth of movement to the game. A big part of the appeal of classic Sonic (to me, anyway) is that depth comes from the level design and the way you interact with it, not just your character mashing a bunch of abilities. Jumping, rolling, drop-dashing, and Ray's flying are one-button abilities that mesh REALLY WELL with the dynamic sloped terrain and branching paths.

    But classic Sonic could definitely benefit from some additional movement options to help keep the flow going. I don't think you'd even need to create separate control schemes; newer players can just use their one jump button and get by just fine... but it'd be nice to see some new, innovative movement mechanics to really enhance that feeling of zipping along and using the terrain to your advantage.

    3. Hammer Drop should absolutely be able to bounce off of slopes organically or bounce off of enemies. As it stands, the ability feels like it's ONLY use is to open up Mighty-specific pathways. It feels like the standard "get key, open door" gameplay you see in adventure games, except Mighty is the key. It can be a tiny bit satisfying to open up those pathways, but it's not like there are any creative or thought-provoking uses for the Hammer Drop. The most fun I had using it was in Encore Mirage Saloon Act 1, just because it was cool to switch between the 5 characters and see all the alternate routes.

    4. I swear I've seen others say this before, but.... they should really give Knuckles' glide the soft landing, like it has in the Adventure games. While still fun, it loses a lot of potential to be a REALLY fun movement option when you finish gliding and Knuckles comes to a dead stop. In a game that is so heavily momentum-based, it makes no sense that you can't keep running or rolling when you drop down from a glide. It's a real pace-killer. Ray's glide is a much more powerful tool and that allows you to do it, so I'm not sure why Knuckles shouldn't be able to.

    5. Super on board for a longer game overall, but if "Mania 2" is all-new content and it's development timeline is similar to Mania's... I think a game of similar length would be more than enough. A game of that size with all original zones would be so insane; I remember how surprised I was to just see ONE new classic Sonic zone when they revealed Studiopolis. PGZ and TMZ were great, too (mostly PGZ imo). If the entire game were like that.... man.

    6. I've noticed something in classic games, including a bit in Mania (thought they did address it a bit), where early-game stages are always super organic... they have huge branching paths... they have slopes up the wazoo... etc. But late-game stages tend to get a lot more flat, have less branching (or less organic-feeling) paths, more slow skill checks, etc. I'd like to see that consistency upped a little more, because late-game stages are almost always my least favorite. Mania kind of addressed this by having classic staples like Hydrocity and Stardust Speedway near the end of the game, and by making Titanic Monarch a pretty unique and super vertical gauntlet. I may be alone here, I guess, but I always found Metallic Madness, Scrap Brain, Metropolis, Death Egg, Sky Sanctuary, etc to be some of the weaker points in the classic games... they take away slopes and replace them with flat, boxy terrain, giving you far less opportunity to interact with the environment. They introduce a lot of slow, skill-checky gimmicks. In my head, it seems very difficult to think of ways to make late-game Sonic harder in ways that make use of it's fluid physics and unique platforming approach. But it would be neat to see them try something like that. Not a major gripe though, as they're all still zones I enjoy.

    7. More interactive / less formulaic bosses, I suppose. Mania had some really cool ones in there. I'm interested to see if others agree with me here, but I find a lot of Sonic bosses feel a bit boring and they're easy to cheese with damage boosting. It's the spectacle of them that I like, but the difficulty often feels quite manufactured.

    8. A new marina / harbor zone, like Marina Madness. :) Not really a gameplay thing but... eh!
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  2. Josh

    Josh

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    Agreed, though I'd settle just for letting Knuckles spin-dash out of a slide again. Mania uses the same code as Knuckles in Sonic 2, meaning he lost the ability between 3 and Mania.
     
  3. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    I'm willing to bet they removed that to not step on Sonic's toes. With it, Knuckles would essentially have gliding, climbing, breaking walls, AND the drop dash.
     
  4. YuTwo

    YuTwo

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    I always felt that it was a regression in Mania that Knuckles isn't able to do that. It feels so clunky after playing Sonic 3.

    Speaking of Knuckles, I think he should have the ability to spindash up walls like in Advance 3 (Go to 8:17 in the video to see it):

    I have to admit I didn't come up with this idea given that I didn't play Advance 3 a lot. I read it on a comment from a Youtube video of Mirage Saloon Act 2 footage by Polygon.
    [​IMG]
    Comment Source: /watch?v=R8zmICz4q_8&lc=UgiFo_XapkQg-3gCoAEC


    It wasn't intentionally removed. As Josh said it was because Mania is using some of the same code as Knuckles in Sonic 2 so to speak. Another article from the Sonic 3 Unlocked blog mentions this.

    https://web.archive.org/web/2020033...t.com/2017/10/why-no-knuckles-in-sonic-1.html
     
  5. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    I mean, both S3K and Mania had a save feature. I don't see why the games need to be designed to be beaten in a single sitting. When I get tired of playing, I simply quit and leave the rest for later. In fact, I prefer to go through my games in multiple sessions, especially these days. I for one will be sorely disappointed if the next game is shorter and gives me only one session of playtime (not counting replays).

    Agreed, the full stop has always been the one thing that annoys me about Knuckles' gameplay in S3K and Mania. In fact, we already had a 2d game that did away with it (Chaotix), so I don't get why they went back to the clunkier S3K glide (other than the fact they recycled old code, as mentioned above).
     
    Last edited: Nov 17, 2020
  6. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    Classic Eggman art Member
    The drop dash should also go up the walls if Sonic "lands" on one. I can't see the logic of revving while your knuckles are nailed to the wall, though. "Climbing" on ceilings would make more sense, either when you go down a wall and find a corner instead of floor, or by jumping and sticking to it.
     
  7. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    It has its own animation that makes it seem reasonable:
     
  8. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    Still not convincing enough for me, but I suppose it would be valid as a super peel-out type of move.
     
  9. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Looks convincing enough for me. Use just the legs to rev up, leaving the arms free for hanging from the wall, then curl up into a ball on release. In fact, Amy's spindash in Advance 2 and 3 works just like that, except on the ground.
     
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2020
  10. kyasarintsu

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    A spin dash on walls looks fun and I think the animation looks fine.
     
  11. Xilla

    Xilla

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    Maybe he could slide back down the wall as he revs it up or something?
     
  12. Frostav

    Frostav

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    One of the big problems with Knuckles' whole gameplay design IMO is that climbing up walls is extremely slow and has no physics component (in fact basically every non-Sonic character in the 2D games in general except for Ray has this issue), so something like that would be very fun--especially since it means Knuckles' routes could incorporate longer vertical shafts and the like, and elbow-shaped curves at the top to smoothly transition to a normal horizontal section.
     
  13. BadBehavior

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    I know this isn't gameplay related, but I want a level theme that isn't the 36754 Twindillionth appearance of Green Hill Zone. All original zones or bust I say.

    A. Every character ever. If they have a "X in Sonic 1" rom hack, put them in.

    B. No lives system. Crash 4 got rid of it and it was better for it. Ofc you could keep it for the oldbies I mean boomers I mean the people who like a challenge. Oh and either make the levels shorter or get rid of the 10 min time limit.

    C. Maybe a more fleshed out story and narrative.
     
  14. Josh

    Josh

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    If they're gonna do that, maybe they should at least make it challenging. I finished Crash 4, and almost never fell below 90 lives out of a max of 99. I might as well have not even had the lives system on! And I was never THAT big a fan of Crash! This is all because k̶i̶d̶s̶ ̶l̶i̶k̶e̶ ̶y̶o̶u̶ ̶j̶u̶s̶t̶ ̶c̶a̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶p̶l̶a̶y̶ ̶r̶e̶a̶l̶ ̶g̶a̶m̶e̶s̶ ̶a̶n̶y̶m̶o̶r̶e̶ the industry has evolved to become more accessible and accepting of a wider range of player preferences. :V
     
  15. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Perhaps it's just the longtime Sonic player in me talking, but I can't imagine games like Mania giving people trouble based on the lives system. There are rings everywhere, they can be easily picked up after getting hit, the game is extremely generous with 1ups, and there are continues. I always find myself with max lives and a bunch of continues by the end of a playthrough :V (not bragging here)
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  16. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    Depends on how young the players are. My nieces struggle with anything past Green Hill in Mania, but they're 6 and 4. Sega aims for "kids", but just how young does that refer to?
     
  17. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    Aiming for a younger demographic is pointless anyway because kids fucking blow at games now matter how easy you make them.

    ...and they don't care and will happily play the first stage over and over again, if my long years as an older sibling are anything to go by.
     
  18. Laura

    Laura

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    I used to be terrible at Sonic as a kid. I could rarely get past Chemical Plant as a kid. I don't think I ever got past Marble Zone without using level select.

    I think the same is the case for a lot of our generation to be honest.
     
  19. Sid Starkiller

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    Yeah, just Hydrocity and Marble Garden took quite a bit of practice to get good enough for, and felt like real accomplishments.
     
  20. Josh

    Josh

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    I mean, that matches my personal experience, but I know for a fact it doesn't match most players. :P Tons of YouTube critics complained about Mania not having enough modern conveniences, most especially the way that you have to start an entire ZONE from the beginning if you get a Game Over. Most people I know IRL who got the game and aren't big Sonic fans loved it up to Flying Battery, got a Game Over in Act 2, and never made it further than that.