What gameplay features would you want in the next 2D Sonic game?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Jordan91, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. So Sonic Mania really expanded further on the classic gameplay formula and added so much that, in my opinion, should be the standard for future 2D Sonic games.

    So, IF there is a new 2D Sonic game coming (I’m pretty sure there will be), what gameplay features would you prefer? Most people will agree that the next game should be equal in length to 3&K and/or Mania but with all original stages. So here’s more options:

    A) Characters
    1) The Original 3 (Sonic, Tails, Knuckles)
    2) The Original 3 + Mighty & Ray
    3) The Original 3 + Classic Amy
    4) All 6 characters

    B) Options
    1) Original (lives, time limit, 1 default move set)
    2) Encore (# of characters=lives, no time limit, ability to choose move set between 3&K, Mania, CD, etc.)
    3) A combination of both

    C) Do you also want a Regular Story Mode & Encore Mode just like Mania Plus? Or only one of the two?


    I’m sure there’s more features that you guys can think of. For me, I would like to see the next 2D game have the original 3 + Amy (give her a chance to shine), the original options with lives, etc. and a regular story mode with no encore mode unless they really change up level designs instead of just level backgrounds, etc.

    This is just a start but I’d like to see what you guys can come up with.
     
  2. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    There's no reason to remove Mighty and Ray, so leave them in. But I'm not sure what to do with Amy. What made her interesting in Advance 1 and 3 was using her Hammer instead of spinning, but I don't see a way to do that meaningfully without ditching the "every button is the same" control scheme. The only real problem with doing so is inertia from hardcore fans. "THIS IS THE WAY IT'S ALWAYS BEEN AND SHOULD ALWAYS BE!!!" I've seen pushback any time anyone, including myself, suggested the idea.

    That said, if they do scrap it, that would be a good way to combine all of Sonic's moves together. Super Peel-Out could be tacked onto the Mania control scheme with no issue, but the separate button could be used to add in the Instashield as well, and it would also serve another benefit: the shield moves. I had always headcanon-ed that the shield moves were the result of Sonic trying to use the Instashield and the shields absorbing that burst of energy, which was why Sonic couldn't use the Instashield when he had one. And even though the protection of the elemental shields far surpassed the basic shield, I and many others found it a real drag to lose the Drop Dash when you have an elemental shield. This control scheme would change that: all 3 buttons still make Sonic jump, but A and B would activate the Drop Dash, and Y would activate the Instashield or a shield move. Tails/Knuckles/Mighty/Ray would be unaffected, since the shield moves were clearly meant to compensate for the other character's mobility based moves.

    I'm all for bringing back Encore mode, but this time make it a full-on Hard Mode for extra challenge. Very little of the changes in Mania's Encore Mode made it "harder", just "hopefully different enough to be worth playing again". And unless you really like Mighty and want to get more use out of his Hammer Drop, it's not, really. This time have it unlock after beating the Normal Mode with all Chaos Emeralds. The unlock message can even be an easter egg: "Here come Encore Mode for extra challenge! Are You Up 2 It?"

    I'm fine with bringing back lives in the normal mode, but maybe have a hard mode that makes them less plentiful? I'm hesitant to do it flat-out for the kids, but I'm betting all of us here can clear S3K and/or Mania with 99 lives.

    And I'll probably be the only person in here to say: no Super Emeralds. I don't feel like they added enough to be worth it. And I personally found the look of Hyper Sonic to be quite gaudy. On a related note, make the other character's Super forms glow faster ala S3K's Super Knuckles palette. As it is in Mania, you can barely tell they've even transformed.
     
  3. Vanishing Vision

    Vanishing Vision

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    A score attack mode that sets specific, tighter time limits per act, like the Mega Play version of Sonic 1. Limits could be between 1:00 and 5:00 depending on the length of the act. Enough time to encourage both urgency and variety. Perhaps with the option to challenge both individual acts or the entire game, although individual acts would be the priority. Put it alongside the time attack, and a third ranked mode using the "ring chain" system from the Switch ports, in the "Ranking Mode" tab. 3 ways to compete, with online ranking for each.

    Also a Takenobu Mitsuyoshi vocal theme.
     
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  4. I really like and agree with pretty much everything you mentioned.. I also forgot to mention officially adding in Super Cancel for all super forms because yeah I love that option in AIR and 3 Complete and it’s a nice challenge to beat the levels without transforming.

    I’m sure whoever is tasked with developing will find a way to implement Amy nicely into the classic gameplay.. if it’s Evening Star then I have faith.

    And yes, pretty much max control for Sonic just like in Sonic 3 Complete.. having the insta-shield, peel out, spin dash, and the drop dash all in one will equal a very versatile Sonic..

    I’m just worried that SEGA might think it’s too much.
     
  5. Nack the Weasel should be a playable character, obviously!
     
  6. Myles_Zadok

    Myles_Zadok

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    I want an online versus mode. Racing through an act/zone is one option, but I was also thinking of a hack that I don't remember the name of, but it had a 1v1 mode where Knuckles and I think Tikal would try to find chaos emeralds in stages. So kind of like SA2's Battle mode for the treasure hunting stages, but in 2D.

    Granted, if they implented an online versus mode, I'd probably never get anything else done.

    I also agree that a hard mode would be good. Maybe remove a lot of the rings and all of the shields, and increase enemy and spike placement. I don't know how to make the bosses harder without making them take longer, which would make them not fun, so maybe just ensure you have no rings going into the boss? Like the Death Egg Robot fight in Sonic 2.

    I honestly don't see why they wouldn't at least give us the option for max control for Sonic without debug mode or modding. Even if they want the default to be "one-button only" control, there should at least be an in-game option for max control.
     
  7. This!! Idk how I forgot online competition.. this was something I think Mania sorely needed.. would love to have online races
     
  8. Pengi

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    I wouldn't want them to re-invent the wheel. Just a new game in the Sonic Mania engine. The bulk of the new ideas should come from the levels themselves, their terrain, environmental gimmicks and enemies. The four new Zones in Sonic Mania were the most exciting, but the Act 2s (or Act 1, in Stardust Speedway's case) were full of new ideas too. I'd want to see more of that.

    One of the cool things Mania did was have the shields interact with the environment, being able to burn bridges, melt ice, stick to magnets, walk on chemicals and so on. They could expand on that, but also add a bit of challenge to it. There could be a Fire Shield near the start of an Act and a wooden bridge near the end, then the challenge becomes being able to hold onto the shield without getting hit. Maybe it could lead to an alternate boss?

    I'd also like to see a few more "platformery" levels, to balance out the more speed focused levels. Like in Sonic 1 and Sonic CD, where not every level had loops.

    One of Sonic 3 & Knuckles' greatest strengths was how different Knuckles' play-through was from Sonic's, with character specific routes. Sonic Mania only had a little bit of this, and it was reserved exclusively for Knuckles, with Tails, Ray and Mighty all going through Sonic's route. I wouldn't mind them having a smaller cast of characters, if it means each one gets the same care that Knuckles did in S3&K.

    With that in mind, I don't think Tails and Knuckles need to be in every game. Amy is the most in-demand character for a Mania sequel and it would be nice to see Mighty and/or Ray in levels designed for their abilities. It would also be fun to see an unexpected addition like Vector, Charmy or Bean. I'd rather have an oddball cast of 3/4 characters that bring something new to the table and have their own routes, than a cast of 6+ characters that go through the game very similarly. It would be exciting if the next game concentrated on (for example) Sonic, Amy, Ray and Vector, with Sonic continuing the core gameplay, Ray's abilities getting a chance to shine this time and Amy and Vector feeling as fresh as Knuckles did in S3&K.

    In terms of replayability, Mania's Time Attack and Versus modes were both excellent and should be retained. (The Special Stages need to be added to Time Attack though.)

    For the next one, they should add 5 Red Star Rings to each Act. (Or, if they're keeping the hidden Giant Rings, have the game keep track of which ones the player has found.) The best Sonic games have a lot of alternate paths to explore, so it's good to encourage that kind of exploration. If a player hasn't collected all the Red Star Rings, then they know there are parts of the level they haven't seen yet.

    A mission system, like in Sonic Rush Adventure, wouldn't go amiss either. Things like collecting 100 Rings in an Act and getting ranked on your time, seeing how quickly you can defeat X number of enemies, or finishing an Act/defeating a boss without taking damage. New ways to play the game, without fundamentally changing it. (The Ring Chain mode from the recent Sega Ages Sonic 1 and 2 releases on Switch adds so much replay value.)
     
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  9. Frostav

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    Characters going through stages in a different order, and each character's version of a stage being unique in some kind of way (such as Tails going through a particular zone at nighttime because in the story he comes into it as his, say, 6th stage, whereas it's Sonic's 2nd so it's bright daylight for him). As well as this, having what characters do in their version of a zone affect the other versions. An example of this would be Sonic defeating a boss in one particular zone and shutting down the power during the fight, so for the characters who enter the zone later than him, it's dark and moody as opposed to being vibrant and bright. Perhaps without power certain sections funnel these characters into a different part of the zone--somewhat like how Knuckles' lower jump in 3&K funnels him into his own unique sections. E.g an elevator that works for Sonic doesn't, so the characters after him just go straight ahead into an area that was blocked by a powered barrier in Sonic's version.
     
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  10. Only for viewing

    Only for viewing

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    Mighty's Hammer Drop isn't very useful as a whole, though; very rarely do you ever need to go straight down in a Genesis-style game. Honestly, I feel as though Sonic Galactic from this year's SAGE does the concept a whole lot better; Tunnel the Mole's ability lets you drop straight down to the ground, but from there you can launch yourself upwards in a straight line.

    Of Mighty and Ray I can only ever see Ray appearing in future Sonic games, and that's only because of his Air Glide. That's a fun ability.
     
  11. Pengi

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    The Hammer Drop's secondary function of being able to shake the environment could be put to more interesting uses.

    In Mania, Mighty is less about having an exciting move set and more about providing a more lenient play experience, being able to deflect bullets and bounce off of spikes. He's an easier to play version of Sonic, with Sonic's speed focused Drop Dash and shield abilities catering to more experienced players. I'd be fine with Mighty being kept as an "easy mode" Sonic clone.
     
  12. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    The hammer drop was cool, but it sorely needed the ability to transfer that momentum to your roll when you hit a slope with it. The way it plays right now is a total boner killer. Mighty would be a speed demon otherwise. He should get his wall kick back too.
     
  13. Sid Starkiller

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    I can't see one appearing without the other, though. The biggest thing that would help Mighty is more opportunities to break floors, maybe a few alternate routes for him.
     
  14. kyasarintsu

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    Mighty's slam doesn't even let you make use of quarter pipes for big speed or bounce high off enemies. It's like they specifically prevented it from having any of the fun uses I wanted.
    If they want him to be the easy mode character, his shield should be improved: the uncurling and recoil would all-too-often leave you wide open to attack anyway, so changing it to have him gain some intangibility frames but continue barreling forwards outside of his shell would be fun. Would it be too easy? Maybe, but I'd prefer it to what we have now.
     
  15. Putting Red Star Rings in a classic style game would be interesting.. I know Sonic 4 did it first for 2D but that was only 1 per act and they didn’t give you anything.. I would love to see what unlockables you would get, similar to the gold medals in Mania.. Despite being a 3D feature, it can totally work in this case
     
  16. Laura

    Laura

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    I'd like to see a more fleshed out time attack mode with tangible rewards. A big part of the series is going fast but you don't really have an incentive to do so rather than for your own sake.

    I think Sonic CD 2011 is a good blueprint here. It unlocked tangible rewards for beating levels in certain times and was pretty free with it by putting time limits on all levels combined rather than individual ones, which encouraged you doing it yourself rather than just looking up guides.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
  17. Pengi

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    Sonic Pocket Adventure did it first with its puzzle pieces.

    They just need to keep the system of previously collected Red Star Rings being semi-transparent, rather than being gone for good. Keep them around for repeat play, so you still get the points.

    Concept art is always a good unlockable. It's not something you need to fully experience the game, but it's of great value to the fans and there's always enough of it to spread out the rewards.
     
  18. Rudie Radio Waves

    Rudie Radio Waves

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    I'd like to see pretty and fluid hand drawn 2D graphics!
     
  19. I would like the core trio of Sonic, Tails, and Knuckles to remain playable in any and all 2D entries going forward. Ray and Mighty are fine and dandy, but I'm indifferent toward their potential return. I would very much love for Amy to make a triumphant return to the two-dimensional space though.

    I wouldn't mind if there are more retreads of tropes for zones, or even more Mania recreations. A Mania 2 doesn't need to be 100% original to satisfy me. I would like to see more hybrid level themes like a Winter Jungle, or something unique like Tar Pit or a an Egg Museum.

    One thing I do not want would be more gimmicks. The elemental shields are nice, but I don't see the need for any more of them. I don't think we have reason to fear the inclusion of 2P gimmicks like in Sonic "4" episode 2, but I felt inclined to toss some shade anyway.
     
  20. Laura

    Laura

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    I know some might laugh at me for saying this but it was really jarring how Sonic Mania had no female playable characters. The classics didn't have any either but they were made in the 90s. Every Sonic game from Sonic Adventure onwards that had multiple playable characters had female ones.

    Mania also had the Hard Boiled Heavies as very gender-coded (the female ones were yellow and pink). This isn't something that many people care about but I did think it was a bit daft. In fact, female characters in Sonic have been pretty lame lately. We had Zeena, and while I liked her design, she was an awful character and verged on misoynistic. Blaze wasn't in Forces and the female characters haven't done much of note in the last ten years (since only Tails has really been doing anything) with the exception of Boom.

    So yeah, I'd like some female playable characters in the next game and to have better representation of female characters.
     
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