What gameplay features would you want in the next 2D Sonic game?

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Jordan91, Nov 15, 2020.

  1. This would be a good opportunity to bring Amy into the mix.. a playable female character from the classic era and she would bring something new to the table with a different gameplay style.. I’m sure her trusty hammer will be implemented nicely depending on the level design lol
     
  2. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

    size of a tangerine Member
    286
    85
    28
    I'd like to see Amy join the cast, and I wouldn't say no to Mighty and Ray returning.

    I think HD drawn graphics ala Sonic 2 HD would be cool, though my assumption is that any potential follow-ups to Mania will continue using the "retro" style.

    I definitely think the single-button controls shouldn't be strayed from.
     
  3. I actually think a 2D game with Generations graphics would be really neat. My dream 2D Sonic game would be a proper Sonic Rush 3 with Sonic, Blaze, and Shadow campaigns, with other characters being optionally playable (like SatBK).

    Too bad this is never gonna happen. But if we got a Mania sequel I wouldn't complain.
     
  4. Pengi

    Pengi

    Member
    1,128
    116
    43
    I agree. The classic Sonic cast only has Amy and Honey (who barely even counts) as playable characters. Classic Amy is an absolute must for a Sonic Mania sequel, but it would do them well to have a girl character who isn't so Minnie Mouse.

    The best female characters recently have come from the IDW comics. If they do a 2D Sonic game in the "Modern Sonic" universe, they should absolutely use Tangle. But if the next 2D game is a Mania sequel, set in the "Classic Sonic" universe, they can always create a brand new character. I still insist that an amphibian character who can breathe underwater would be popular with anyone who's ever been stressed out by the drowning countdown.
     
  5. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

    size of a tangerine Member
    286
    85
    28
    Froggy.
     
  6. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

    Member
    849
    140
    43
    Virginia, USA
    Paying off student loans
    That's what I mean, though: the two bolded points seem to get in each other's way. How would you make Amy a worthwhile addition with only 1 button? If you're just gonna pull an Advance 2 and have her roll with the hammer, I don't really see the point. Imagine if Tails couldn't fly in Mania. Yes he would still be there, but why play as him if he's not actually different from Sonic?

    Or you could make her jump without rolling and double-jumping swings the hammer...but then how would she use her hammer on the ground? Would she just arbitrarily only be able to swing her hammer in the air?

    If you think it could be done, and actually make use of what makes Amy different from Sonic, please enlighten me, because I would love to have her there.
     
  7. kyasarintsu

    kyasarintsu

    Member
    96
    11
    8
    I like Amy and I'd love to see her playable in a main game again. I'm not a fan of her Advance gameplay style but I think that the interpretation of her in a recently-released mod was fun enough as a foundation.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  8. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

    size of a tangerine Member
    286
    85
    28
    Take her moveset from the previously mentioned Mania mod, and remove the unnecessary button separation. She controls basically like Sonic (obviously), but double jump/hold hammer-swings, and up+jump always does a hammer-jump. Using her hammer on the ground at a standstill (outside of hammer-jumping) serves no practical purpose that I can think of unless she can't spin or jump in a ball. There are probably other solutions too.
     
  9. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

    I like Sonic Advance Member
    1,024
    115
    43
    France
    Learning how to draw, studying Japanese
    But at this point I think the gameplay would just be limited for the sake of an arbitrary one button scheme.

    I’ll be honest; as someone who grew up playing games with an xbox 360 controller I don’t really see the point of having all face buttons do the exact same thing; Mania absolutely should’ve had Advance-style actions for its characters in order to make their moveset more diverse imo.
    I’m sure it was a great idea in the 90’ when people were relatively inexperienced with video games, but nowadays kids are used to playing all kinds of games and don’t really need this kind of special attention. Unless this is about keeping the gameplay "pure" and "basic", and I disagree with that too.

    And you have to press the Y/Triangle button to activate your super form so it’s not really a one button control scheme anyway. It WAS at launch, but they patched it out because it made the game unplayable, revealing the inherent limitations of a one-button system.
    And that’s not even mentioning Encore mode.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
    • Like Like x 4
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • List
  10. Laura

    Laura

    Brightened Eyes Member
    Yeah, count me in also as someone who doesn't really care about the one button scheme.

    I get that it's nice for simplicity's sake and that it's a tradition but I also don't think it's something to doggedly hold onto. It's not the 90s anymore. I think we can move past it.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 2
    • List
  11. Beltway

    Beltway

    Temptive Bongwater, Sealed in Can Member
    1,438
    43
    28
    Sega of Darkest Peru
    college courses / anime trash crusader
    If developers are going to continue adding new mechanics to Sonic and company's moveset with a larger variety of input techniques, and/or have a moveset that allows them to access multiple secondary mechanics instead of swapping them out like in Mania; then the one-button scheme should definitely be retired, or at least re-aligned as a secondary "classic" control scheme. Even before Mania; the one-button control scheme was discarded once the Genesis gameplay started experimenting with co-op mechanics (Chaotix) and accommodating for 3D movement (Sonic 3D, Sonic R). Classic-inspired games like Sonic 4 and Generations also used a two-button scheme for things such as Super Sonic, co-op mechanics, and powerups.

    If the goal is a mission pack sequel, then sure I guess, keep the one-button scheme; but I think most people are ready for expanding the Genesis gameplay, now the Mania --as the back-to-basics / retraux game-- proved it was still viable. (Especially since by the time S3&K showed up, they were accused of not pushing the envelope enough at the time of their release as it is.) I can see a two-button control scheme taking after the aforemented 3D Genesis Sonic titles; where you have one button for jumping and secondary jumping mechanics and the other button for rolling and secondary rolling mechanics.

    ---

    A big thing I personally want to see is for a future (2D) Sonic game is a game that really experiments with level progression/level branching. The obvious example would be secret/alternative goalposts that take you to different zones (or different acts); so you have "special/bonus" stages/worlds off the main route you can discover and play through. Something the series has kinda toyed with, such as Star Light having two goalposts, or Sonic 2 Remastered allowing you to go to the remade Hidden Palace Zone through the Mystic Cave pit. That would be great stuff, but I would also love to see different routes with mostly different sets of zones (Star Fox 64 a la mode); where you performed certain actions that not only change your level progression, but also alter the story (akin to CD's time traveling altering the future, but not as laborious).

    For one example, you could have the game start with Eggman about to launch a new weapon that would buy him some time from a fast-pursuing Sonic and company--say, a weapon that splits up the island the game is set on into a few smaller isles; and this weapon is set on the first zone of the game. A normal playthrough would have the player arrive too late to stop it, and the chaos sets them back enough that they take a slower route (a standard six-seven or so zones) to eventually get to Eggman's new base. But experienced players can arrive just in time for a boss fight, with Sonic/etc. sabotaging the weapon so badly that Eggman has to make a last-ditch effort to repair it at his base, which for Sonic/etc. is the immediate next zone. You could also structure the story and the difficulty accordingly--where the normal campaign would end at the new base, which would be fairly tough; the faster route would reveal Eggman pulls out a hasty secondary plan that has the story continue to other zones that are just as difficult, if not more--thus, you have a "hard mode" campaign for challenge seekers.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  12. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

    bobs over baghdad Member
    4,832
    10
    18
    Winnipeg, MB
    making cool music no one gives a shit about
    I've wanted OutRun style level progression in a proper Sonic game for years now. Infuriating that Shadow, of all games, is the only one to take a stab at it.
     
  13. I wouldn’t mind seeing a world map as well, similar to what Sonic 4 did (although that was just for show), where you can go to alternate levels/zones by finding a secret goal post in an act, etc. like in Super Mario World. It can coincide with Beltway’s idea in terms of level progression. It would really make the game feel much more bigger and adds a degree of exploration for completionists.
     
    Last edited: Nov 16, 2020
  14. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

    Member
    849
    140
    43
    Virginia, USA
    Paying off student loans
    I had a similar idea once, to combine alternate levels with Adventure-style power-ups for something approaching a Metroidvania. But that's more spinoff-esque than something fitting this thread.
     
  15. Ok, Using Sonic Mania Plus as a base.
    1) Yes, Amy Rose hammers into action. Personally I would even throw in at least Espio from Chaotix. Maybe give Mighty his Chaotix Wall Kick again. Not 100% sure what I would do for Amy. Maybe pinch the Sonic Heroes Hammer hover/glide.
    2) Hidden levels. Maybe nearly every level has a hidden level/act not unlike Hidden Palace in Sonic 2 Android. Maybe even play around with graphics and such.
    3) World Map. Hell maybe you would out Sonic Forces, Sonic Forces. Have like 5 Islands with 4 levels each and you've gotta chase Eggman off all of them. And you would have maybe Metal Sonic or the Hard Boiled Heavies invading them occasionally and you would have to get rid of them or you risk losing your progress. You could even have Rush Adventure style hidden islands on the map you would travel to and they would be towards non Sonic 1,2,3K levels perhaps.
    4) Daytime and Nighttime levels. These would be mostly graphical rather than affecting the game in any meaningful way. Hell throw in Rain effects.
     
  16. Pengi

    Pengi

    Member
    1,128
    116
    43
    The single button gameplay of the Mega Drive Sonic games was never a product of its era. It went against the trend of adding more buttons and more complex inputs. Super Mario Bros. needed two buttons to play, so they made sure Sonic only needed one. It was the right decision. It was unique and accessible then and it's just as unique and accessible today. It's a large part of why the iOS/Android ports of Sonic 1, 2 and CD play as well as they do.

    I think Sega needs to read the room. The Mega Drive titles are the best known and most beloved games in the series. They've been ported to practically every platform and they always sell well. There was an appetite for a new Mega Drive style Sonic game for a long time, and Sonic Mania was the first one to fully deliver that, in a way the Dimps games and Sonic Generations never quite managed. It's without a doubt the biggest "Win" the series has had in a very long time, and is likely to become as ever-green as Sonic 1 and 2. And it's left people wanting more "but with all-new Zones".

    I truly believe that's what the next 2D Sonic game needs to be. Mega Drive/Mania style gameplay, but with all-new Zones. A proper, full-fledged new installment in the classic series.

    And that's the kind of game where they shouldn't be mucking around with the fundamentals of how Sonic controls and operates. The simplicity of the one-button control scheme is a key feature, not a constraint. At a push they could add a second button for a secondary character like Amy or Charmy, but Sonic needs to be Sonic, without any barnacles.

    I'd be up for a sequel to Sonic Rush Adventure, or a 2D Sonic Colours 2, but they can come later. The "Classic Sonic" sub-brand should embody the elegance of the Mega Drive titles.

    Wario Land II had a fantastic variant on this idea. I wish more platformers did this. It's an especially good idea for Sonic, where around 12-14 Zones is the right amount of content for the game, but 6/7 Zones is perfect for a single sitting.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  17. Myles_Zadok

    Myles_Zadok

    IDK Member
    18
    2
    3
    I would actually kind of like a game that was a lot longer than 12-14 zones. I know Sonic levels tend to be really big and take a while to develop and get right, but I can typically go through 12-14 zones in around 3 hours on my first playthrough, and under 2 on replays. I wouldn't mind a game that pushed it up 16, 18 or even 20 zones, especially if I'm gonna have to wait 4-5 years for each new game.

    As for the "branching paths" idea, I don't know. As long as there was a way to play through all of the zones in one sitting, I'd be interested in letting them try it, but I'm not sure if I would like it or not. It would definitely encourage exploration for sure, but I feel like I would be missing out on other zones if I skipped some of them because I took a certain path.
     
  18. 3&K had 15 zones total, but 3 of them were only one act so if you take those away, you have 12 complete zones which is the same exact number that Mania has.. I think 14-15 full 2 act zones would be a very reasonable length.. Mania did a great job of establishing a halfway point between the zones so I’m sure the same will be done for the next game.

    I would really love to brainstorm on what other zone ideas the team can go with.. Mania covered the typical grass, desert, water, fire, snow/ice, mechanical, etc. so it makes me wonder what other aesthetics can be used.. maybe a beach, forest, city, mountains, the sky?? (Yeah I’m kinda pulling from Mario on most of these but I don’t think those were done in a 2D classic Sonic game before)
     
  19. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

    Member
    849
    140
    43
    Virginia, USA
    Paying off student loans
    Much as I love both 3K and Mania, by Sandopolis/Metallic Madness I feel the burnout. 12 full-length zones, with a few brief 1 act zones, is a good maximum.
     
  20. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

    size of a tangerine Member
    286
    85
    28
    One of the many reasons I don't like 3&K as much as 1 and 2 is the length. With the first two games (and CD), playing the game in a single 60-90 minute sitting is part of why it's so easy and enjoyable to return to them time and time again. With 3&K and Mania being so much larger than 1's six 3-act zones and 2's eight/nine 2-act zones, they're far less approachable for a random afternoon replay. I feel like about ten 2-act zones (plus any 1-act zones) would really be the best length to shoot for.