The younger fandom, and how they learned from exactly none of our mistakes.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Josh, Jan 6, 2020.

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  1. Wildcat

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    Why would a whole forum exist just for one specific part of the fanbase? Having Retro in the name doesn’t mean it’s Classic era only. It’s just a Sonic board.

    At first I was kind of surprised to see so many complaints about Sonic overall. I mean on the Internet in general. Then I remembered this is the way all fandoms work. Every franchise that has run long enough gets really scrutinized with some just deciding to be against entire eras (usually the era or things they did not grow up with).

    So when I see complaints about specific time frames or directions things have gone in I honestly think a lot is just nitpicking. Nothing can or should stay 1 way forever. Every franchise should be allowed expand on its roots. Imo nothing from Adventure - Current day has been unreasonably different or “wrong”.
     
  2. Vanishing Vision

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    I've got 100%, but my secret shame is that I had to use Super Sonic to get the Terminal Velocity S rank. Is there anyone here cool enough to have gotten it "legit"?
     
  3. I beat Colors in my first sitting (only took me about 3 or 4 hours), then got all the Red Star Rings and Super Sonic in about a day or two. The only things I didn't bother with were Egg Station mode and the S Ranks, since I didn't have any incentive to get them, since, as far as I can tell, you don't get anything for getting all S Ranks or clearing Egg Station mode. After that, I just never felt like going back to the game. I don't know, the game just didn't really leave any impression on me.

    Sonic Adventure came out in 1998. It's gonna be 22 years old this year. Adventure 2 came out in 2001, and it'll be 20 years old next year, so yeah, I'd say they're considered 'retro' now, lol. Us Adventure fans are in our 20s and 30s now; we're getting old too. Now pass the whiskey, Classic fans. :V
     
  4. TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

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    Believe it or not, I did.
     
  5. XAndrew

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    As part of the younger fandom that enjoys Classic Sonic from the early 90's to Mania the most, I'm really shocked by this post. This is not just a place for Classic fans. It's for Sonic fans in general.

    Also both Sonic Adventure titles are pretty retro now. The first one released the same year I was born. The second one released when I was three years old. Sonic Adventure Was my very first Sonic game I have ever played (The very first game I have ever played in general actually). That was far back as 2002, when I was 4 years old. I played Sonic Adventure 2 around that time, and a year later. Needless to say, yeah both of them are considered retro by today's standard.
     
  6. Frostav

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    For the record, I'm here because...I like the classic games. I also like the Adventure games. Sonic Retro to me is the slightly older place for the boomer part of the fandom (I mean this as a playful joke), I just happen to be a weird zoomer who likes hanging out with the older subset of the fanbase.

    Also it's kinda funny to hear that when I intentionally don't talk much in the younger fan circles I'm in because people get mad and call me a toxic classic grognard when I tell them that Heroes is and always was bad and they should just accept the truth :V I follow a lot of Sonic fanartists on twitter and as you'd expect they are the most stereotypical zoomer Sonic fans with OC's and stuff (great art, granted, and heck, I like OC's!) and the entire attitude in those circles is that any attitude towards Sonic that isn't absolute adulation is just being a toxic bully, so yeah, I just roll my eyes and RT the fanart and go here for Sonic discussion.
     
  7. TailsAddict

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    15 years from now, Sonic Boom will be considered the Golden Age of Sonic
     
  8. Zephyr

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    Thoughts that came to mind after reading your post:

    Speaking abstractly, you could absolutely create a message board for one section of a fandom, particularly if different parts of the fandom care about discussing wildly different things. Kanzenshuu and its predecessors were created to document and discuss the Japanese version of Dragon Ball, for instance, and so those are the kinds of fans it can be most expected to attract (they even filtered dub name changes way back).

    Though, a board being created for one section of a fandom doesn't mean those outside of that section are unwelcome; it simply means they'd be expected to be a rarity, as they aren't the place's target audience, so to speak. It's no different than a non-fan of something showing up in a fan-community: it's possible and welcome, but far from expected or usual. Dub fans still go to Kanzenshuu, and the dub is still freely discussed.

    Now, I don't speak for the staff, owners, or creators of this site, this forum, or the spiritual predecessors of either. In 2008, though, I definitely came here to get away from all of the younger fans on YouTube (or, "the noobs", as my 17 year old self put it in his "please validate my account" post). That obviously says more about my own views as a 17 year old than it does the nature of this forum in particular, or forums in general, but I don't think it says nothing about the forum, either. I came here, rather than the Sega Forums, or somewhere else (of course, I also only knew about here, and not those other places :V).

    I have no point other than "it's kinda complicated, actually".
     
  9. XAndrew

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    The funny thing is I can actually see that happening. O_O
     
  10. Frostav

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    Ehhhhhh...people like the show a lot, but they like the show in spite of it being Boom. The show would honestly be mostly the same if the cast were completely original, outside of slightly tweaking some plots and maybe some jokes, but there's not really anything for Boom to stand out. AS for the games, they're either mediocre or absolute trash, the world is uninspired in its design, the redesigns are...controversial at best, the music is completely forgettable...

    Even if you think the Adventure era games were trash and the visual design bad and the plots were cheesy garbage...you can't deny the music of the era was great. Even the staunchest Adventure naysayers still could find something to fondly remember about the games, and of course people like me find way more merit in the games* (one of you people is still gonna reply with "but everything you said about Boom could apply to Adventure" like that equivalence holds any water). But like, come on, what does Boom have?

    People will remember the show more than the games or anything else. I mean, shit, people barely even talk about Boom even when they're specifically talking about bad Sonic games.

    *: okay, merit in two of them
     
  11. TailsAddict

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    SA was pretty good compared to what we have now.. At least it had a story and goofy anime style writing/characters but I remember certain people complaining about it was Trash compared to the 2D games. People are just bias to whatever they grew up with .. The scary part is, how sonic changes alot.. Who knows what he will look next..
     
  12. Josh

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    I'm not saying everything you're arguing about Boom applies to Adventure. But I _will_ say that I remember people in the fandom making similar arguments about the games of that era: That they were already aging poorly, that they were all spectacle and no substance, that they didn't have enough redeeming qualities that anyone would remember them fondly. I thought it was WAY too narrow a view then, just like I do now.

    I mean, _already_ know somebody whose first Sonic game was Rise of Lyric, who has a ton of reverence _for_ those games and those character designs, and who wishes (though he knows it won't happen) that Boom Sonic could make a comeback. I think he was 10 when it came out, and is like 16 now, and the gap between those ages is PLENTY of time to get nostalgic about something. Any game can be somebody's first, and regardless of how anyone else sees it, people tend to have a lot of love for what they consider their introduction to the series. However, I will agree, just not for the same reason: I don't think it's possible for Boom's reputation to really turn around significantly, because I don't think there are gonna be enough people LIKE him out there. Or at least, the game's reputation won't turn around. I can imagine that the kids who grew up watching the cartoon will consider the character designs/writing style their favorite, but I don't think the games (and moreover, the Wii U) sold well enough to make that big an impact.
     
  13. Vanishing Vision

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    Boom as a whole has got to be one of the strangest parts of Sonic's history, and to this day I really wonder why it happened in the first place. What was Boom trying to accomplish as a "sub-series"?

    I haven't played any of the games, but the handheld ones look sort of interesting. Rise of Lyric on the other hand is probably the only Sonic game I have absolutely zero intention of even trying, and this is coming from someone who goes back to 06 every now and then.
     
  14. TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

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    Well, it sort of came at a weird time for the franchise. There was going to be a long gap between Lost World and Mania/Forces, and I don't doubt that its introduction was timed to fill in that gap (seriously, it ran from 2014 to 2017 - beginning right after Lost World and ending right after Forces).

    As for why it happened: Iizuka mentioned at one point it was meant to appeal to American audiences. As for why it was meant to appeal to Americans? I dunno, I guess they saw how weird shows like Regular Show and Steven Universe were and said, "hey, maybe that'll work for Sonic."
     
  15. XAndrew

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    2014 Had to be two of the darkest times for Sonic. Even 2006 to the 2009 didn't seem as bad looking back on it. At least people at that time didn't trash talk Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. I know Sonic isn't completely on the right track as of now either, but at least we had Sonic Mania in 2017. That was some ray of hope. And we got the Sonic Movie this year.

    I can't even to begin to think about the time where all we had was Sonic Boom as any sort of recent Sonic media. Meanwhile we had people starting to talk down to older games such as Sonic Adventure 1, 2 and even the Classic games sometimes.
     
  16. Nova

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    It's so weird to hear people saying anything but 2002-2008 was a dark age for the franchise, yet some people are claiming it as a 'golden age'. People who grow up with something will almost-certainly be biased towards it but there is a real lack of willingness to assess these things objectively. Look at any games media from the time and you'll see the same thing; middling review scores, opening paragraphs lamenting the continuing decline of Sega's mascot, complaints of too many characters and stories that took themselves too seriously, the camera sucks, the game is mostly automated, etc... While the fanbase certainly has complained about things since the fanbase existed, we can at least all recognize that the Classic games are objectively well-designed, polished, speed-focused 2D platformers. Can the same be said of the Adventure games? Heroes? 06? The Storybook games? No, it... Really can't. I'm sorry if you're reading this and thinking of typing out a defensive response but there is a very good reason they didn't receive the same sort of praise the original trilogy did. Of course the younger fandom grew up with these games and of course, telling them their favourite childhood games suck is never going to go down well so you have this increasingly obvious divide where some communities are seen as 'Adventure' havens and some are seen as 'Classic' havens. It's not been helped by Sega including Classic Sonic in everything, producing Classic Sonic merchandise and greenlighting Mania - Adventure fans are feeling sore about it.

    This has probably all been said before several pages back - possibly even by me - but it's always worth typing out your $0.02 in a different manner to see if anyone reads into it differently, I guess.
     
  17. The way I see it, Sonic's 'ages' are like this:

    Golden Age: 1991-1994. This is where the series was at its peak in popularity.
    Saturn transition period: 1995-1997. The series was fumbling about during the Saturn era, and SEGA failed to get a proper game out during this period.
    Silver Age: 1998-2004. While a bit rocky, the series was still respected to some degree, and hadn't become the internet's punching bag yet.
    Dark Age: 2005-2009. SEGA and Sonic Team fumbled really HARD in this era, between Shadow's game jumping the shark by trying to cash-in on edginess of that era and being littered with tedious missions, and the complete shitshow that was Sonic 06's development cycle led to permanent damage to the series' reputation, and it probably won't fully recover for a very long time, if ever. There were a few decent games in this era like the Rush and Riders series, but they're often overshadowed by the failures of Shadow, 06, and to an extent, Unleashed.
    Bronze Age: 2010-2012. This is the point where it seemed like things were finally getting back on track with the success of Colors, Generations, and All-Stars Racing Transformed, but it didn't last very long.
    "We Have No Idea what the fuck we're doing anymore, but screw it, let's just keep going and see what happens." Age: 2013-Present. Lost World was a mixed bag, Boom was a $20 million money sink, Forces disappointed everyone once again, and Mania was the only game that was well-received in this time period. Everyone is pretty much on edge and nervous over the future now for various reasons, as we wait to see what comes next.
     
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  18. Wafer

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    As much as I think a person should try to keep their bias in-check, I'm also kinda against overly objective appraisals. Ultimately, personal, subjective taste IS a factor.

    For my part, I find myself largely agreeing with @CynicalSonicGuy 's appraisal, with the exception that I don't completely hate ShadowTH or Forces.
     
  19. TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

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    Same. (I've actually always felt like Shadow was supposed to be a parody, a satire of how needlessly edgy video games had become, rather than a bizarre attempt to appeal to adults.)
     
  20. Wafer

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    Not sure I can agree that it was intentional, but that view is certainly one way of enjoying it. See eg. the Star Wars prequel trilogy, another ostensibly serious work that's been reinterpreted as farce. I personally didn't have a problem with the tone of ShadowTH, but then at the time I was wearing jeans that were six inches too long and too wide, with anywhere up to 4 chains attached to them.
     
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