The younger fandom, and how they learned from exactly none of our mistakes.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Josh, Jan 6, 2020.

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  1. Sonic's been given quite a few soft reboot attempts for a while. Sonic 06, Unleashed, Colors, Lost World, Mania, Forces, etc. So far, none of them really stuck completely. Then you have Boom, which was kinda marketed as a reboot of sorts before SEGA backpedaled from the backlash and pushed it as a spin-off series instead. I don't think anyone at SEGA or Sonic Team even cares about continuity/consistency for the series at this point. Iizuka's been trying to push the idea that every Sonic game is its own thing and that there's no canon for the series ever since he took the reigns over Sonic Team.
     
  2. Vanishing Vision

    Vanishing Vision

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    I've always thought an origin story game of sorts might be cool. Some hypothetical "3D classic Sonic" that could go into detail about Eggman's history, and he and Sonic clashing for the first time. I'd love to see a new game touch on those mysterious elements from the Genesis manuals and promotional materials. South Island constantly drifting through the ocean, the ancient civilization on Westside Island that the Chaos Emeralds came from, Christmas Island, all that stuff.
     
  3. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    They kinda showed that already. The backstory with the Knuckles Clan in SA1 combined the Chaos Emerald lore from Sonic 2 and 3.
     
  4. Vanishing Vision

    Vanishing Vision

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    True, and I liked that a lot about SA1, but it seemed to stop there. In regards to continuity, it almost seems like SA1 was trying to making a semi-cohesive world out of the Genesis games (especially with Angel Island appearing, featuring Ice Cap, and Red Mountain in the same area possibly standing in for Lava Reef), but nothing was done after that.
     
  5. Adventure 2 still took some elements from the lore of the Genesis games and SA1, with the Eclipse Cannon's Core of the Space Colony ARK having a replica of the Emerald Altar from Angel Island in SA1, which implicates that Gerald Robotnik did research on the Ancient Echidna civilization. There's also implications that Gerald saw the murals and structures from S3K and SA1, or something similar, which is why the Ultimate Life Form prototype was a giant lizard (inspired by Perfect Chaos) and was later changed to a hedgehog (Shadow).

    As for origin stuff, SA2 also hinted that Shadow was an imperfect replica of the Ultimate Life Form that Gerald created after being arrested by GUN and sent to Prison Island, which is why Rouge suggests his memories might be fake, along with how in the final boss fight he couldn't hold his Super form well, while Sonic had no trouble staying transformed. The game also hinted at Sonic being the true Ultimate Life Form- the real Shadow, and implied that he lost his memories after his escape capsule crash landed on Earth. He starts getting his memories back after returning to the ARK and that's why he says Maria's last worlds, "Sayonara/Adios, Shadow the Hedgehog". Of course, none of this was ever 100% confirmed, and later games didn't bother expanding on this idea, as Sonic Team just chose to bring Shadow back due to his popularity and made all those implications irrelevant in later games.

    This video does a pretty decent job explaining the theory:
     
  6. Here's one thing that I've always kind of wondered might be official. I've noticed a lot of people complain about how the Super Emeralds and Hyper forms haven't been in the series since S3&K - but perhaps the Super Emeralds just became the Chaos Emeralds lore-wise? Here's my rationale:
    1. The Chaos Emeralds post-S3&K look exactly like the Super Emeralds.
    2. It wouldn't really make sense for the Emeralds to just revert back to their standard forms after S3&K.
    3. Super Sonic seems to have inherited a few abilities from Hyper Sonic after S3&K.
    Just a theory, but something to think about.
     
  7. RDNexus

    RDNexus

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    Was any of that present in the japanese version of the game?
    It's more than known that SA2 had quite a few "localization liberties", to the point that forum member @Windii had to go out of her way to retranslate the japanese script so as to present the world the proper storyline.
    SA2, SA1 and all 3D games onwards, of course. And I'm sure everyone knows about those series of videos xD


    I don't think so. It's one of those rare cases that the official explanation that "it was just a bonus for those playing S3K" seems fitting to me.
    Those abilities from Hyper Sonic sticking down the line was most likely making good use of gameplay mechanics that seemed interesting.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
  8. Overlord

    Overlord

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    For what it's worth, this is pretty-sorta-kinda how StC did it...
     
  9. Yes I know about SA2's translation issues and that Windii retranslated several Sonic games. There's a line in the final boss fight if you drag it out long enough where Shadow says, "Sonic, I think I know what the Ultimate Life Form is... it might be you!". Sonic also says a vague line, "Shadow, I get it now... Let's head back to the planet where everyone's waiting for us!". Not sure if those lines are different in the Japanese version, though.
     
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2020
  10. Pengi

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    For what it's worth, the Sonic R web page calls them "Super Emeralds", but they're still called "Chaos Emeralds" in-game.

    Sonic Jam's Special Stage mode results screen depicts the Chaos Emeralds in their modern shape for all four games, so it seems the change in appearance was something they decided to apply retroactively. They even depict Sonic 2's purple emerald as dark blue, presumably for the sake of uniformity. At least that would be the safe assumption, except that Sonic Jam actually has 8 different emerald colours. In the Sonic 1 and 2 results screens there's a yellow Chaos Emerald, in Sonic 3 and S&K there's an orange Chaos Emerald. (In the original 16-bit games, Sonic 3's second emerald was yellow and S&K's second emerald was orange, so Jam isn't even being consistent with the original games there.)

    Sonic 2:
    [​IMG]

    Sonic 3:
    [​IMG]

    I'm not very techy, but maybe someone could poke around the Sonic Jam disc and see if there are any clues for why there are 8 emerald colours?
     
  11. Man, you know what's sad? We'll probably never get a collection like Jam, Mega Collection/Plus, or Gems Collection ever again. Especially now that SEGA won't re-release Sonic 3. Jam was especially cool, and you just don't see stuff like that anymore.
     
  12. Sid Starkiller

    Sid Starkiller

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    I've seen this before, but I will never be convinced of it. Fact of the matter is that pre-Adventure the color, shape, and even NUMBER of Chaos Emeralds was inconsistent. In Sonic 1 the emeralds were shaped like octagons, then 2 had them be hexagonal, then 3 had them octagonal on the Special Stage Clear screen, hexagonal on the Save Select screen and in-game, AND...i don't know the proper word so d12-shaped in the actual special stages. None of it means anything. Hell, if Sonic 3 hadn't needed to be split in half, I doubt the Super Emeralds (and thus Hyper forms) would ever have existed in the first place.
     
  13. MastaSys

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    I might be misremembering this, but weren't the Emeralds shown in SA1 Flashbacks (during the ancient Echidna times) larger than in the present?
    I always interpreted that as beeing their Super form.
     
  14. Jay T.

    Jay T.

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    I kind of figured that the Chaos Emeralds had to be within close vicinity of the Master Emerald, so it can power up the Chaos Emeralds into Super Emeralds. Could be wrong, but the few times we see the Emeralds huge is when they're surrounding the Master Emerald at a shrine.

    EDIT: Then again, they were huge in the Space Colony ARK's core, and the Master Emerald wasn't there until Knuckles tried to neutralize their powers.
     
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2020
  15. Pengi

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    The real reason is probably just that it looks better. In story scenes they need to be small enough to fit in a character's hand. But if they were the same size in the emerald shrine, they'd look tiny and silly.
     
  16. big smile

    big smile

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    In the Mega Collection Strategy Guide, it says Knuckles is the Guardian of the Master Emerald that powered up the Chaos Emeralds, so I think that's exactly what happened. Then again, there's an interview with Hoshino where he says the Super Emeralds have gone, so who knows.

    Interestingly, there's text referring to hyper forms buried in Mania's code, but never appeared in game, so I wonder what was up with that.
     
  17. I found Windii's translation of the dialogue for the Final Hazard fight on Pastebin. It's pretty similar to what the English version had, actuallly.
    Shadow: "*pant*... Sonic...I feel like I somehow understand this now... The true... Ultimate life form...You... Might just be it..."
    Sonic: "Shadow... I got it. No one can stop you now... Let's defeat this monster already and return to the planet where everyone's waiting for us!"
    Source: https://pastebin.com/UDzvYZNv
     
  18. Aerosol

    Aerosol

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    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    I'm glad I'm not the only one that caught that implication that the real Ultimate Life-Form was Sonic, but I didn't really like that implication.

    I would love for games to go back and expand on the lore that was actually established in the genesis games though. That's one thing I liked about the comics.
     
  19. MastaSys

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    Well you could connect that with the idea that Gerald based Shadow on the Echidna's prophecy shown in HPZ, might be easier to swallow.
     
  20. Aerosol

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    Sonic (?): Coming summer of 2055...?
    I dislike that as well, for a slightly different reason.

    Sonic himself shouldn't have any kind of "prophecy" or reason to exist. He's fast and likes it when people can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't harm anyone else. That's it. Making him "special" in some way kinda ruins it.
     
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