The younger fandom, and how they learned from exactly none of our mistakes.

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Josh, Jan 6, 2020.

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  1. XAndrew

    XAndrew

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    How can we forget about the whole "Sonic's Been tortured for months" only to find him looking happy as ever, no mental trauma from that torture what so ever. You didn't even see physical trauma, just Sonic looking and acting like he did from Sonic Colors, and after.
     
  2. Multi Battler

    Multi Battler

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    Still one of the goofiest scenes in the entire franchise:
    [​IMG]
     
  3. Vanishing Vision

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    One thing I like about Colors' story is that it's probably the closest we've come to an AoStH game. Sonic and Tails vs. Eggman and his two dumb and dumber robots (sorry Coconuts), Eggman builds a space amusement park in his image under the guise of "I'm nice now", to power a mind control gun. Everything about his plan is centered around his ego, right down to the choice of weapon. The line "Since the world (Mobius?) will have only one thing on its' mind... ME!" is such a Long John Baldry Robotnik line it hurts. The Eggman PA announcements (which in a game derided for Sonic's bad jokes, are actually genuinely funny, the only time the series has really done intentional comedy well) are also very AoStH Robotnik, the whole tone of presenting himself as a slick-talking nice guy, like a sleazy salesman.
     
  4. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    I want to point out that when I described the classic cutscenes as dramatic, I didn't mean they were always devoid of humor. In fact, another Knuckles encounter in Sonic 3 was played for a laugh when knuckles has to hit a lever multiple times for it to work, which I'm sure everyone here remembers.
     
  5. Sid Starkiller

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    If you mean Mushroom Hill, I don't think it was intended as a joke. No matter how many times Knuckles slams that lever, he has the same stoic evil grin on his face. If it was intended to be a joke, presumably he would be visibly frustated.

    Also...why can't Sonic be a balance of goofy and serious? Too many people in here have been treating either goofiness or seriousness as some horrible thing, when I think having both is important. Look at the Power Rangers movie (the 1995 one): the stakes are high, and the threat posed by Ivan Ooze is always played seriously. At the same time, it's not afraid to make fun of itself, like when the Rangers are morphing and the Oozeman use the time taken by all the posing to GTFO, or poking fun at how everyone loved Kimberly by having even Goldar think she's hot. It knew when to throw out some laughs and when to be serious, and it was all the stronger for it. Back to Sonic, I can't really say whether Shadow bashing Eggman's skull in during some endings of his game was worse than THE REAL SUPERPOWER OF TEAMWORK, but I do know that veering too far in either direction is bad for this series.
     
  6. Wildcat

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    Ya like I said before it just depends when cute or funny parts happen. An entire story or game doesn’t need to be totally free of anything lighthearted to be taken seriously.

    I think some people see a big difference between Sonic’s Classic portrayal and his Modern portrayal is because in the old games he never talked. So however they viewed him in their minds didn’t match once actual cutscenes and voices were added.

    Even little things like someone mentioned about his looking-up animation in Mania compared to the older games were he just moves his up and keeps the same expression.

    I mean I don’t think the older games made that a point for dramatic effect. It was probably easier to leave it that way. He already had animations for being left idle and on the edge of a surface.
     
  7. TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

    TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

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    FWIW I've always felt like Sonic's world should be crazy and chaotic while the character himself should be this sarcastic, cynical, and wisecracking ass who seems like the only one who can comprehend what's going on. Sort of like Spider-Man in Into the Spider-Verse. Imagine him talking like Peter B. Parker:
    Wouldn't that be brilliant? Imagine that, coupled with a Tails who's trying to think rationally but has to go along with Sonic's daredevil-ishness because Sonic forces him to, a Knuckles who's an absolute brick and doesn't think before doing anything, and an Eggman who's flamboyant and tries to act sinister and intimidating but comes off as melodramatic and foolish... now that'd be a good tone.
     
  8. It's funny you bring that up. I remember a long time ago there was some interview with some folks from Sega Technical Institute over the development of Sonic Spinball, and they mentioned that they, along with some folks from Sonic Team got to see the pilot of the AoSTH cartoon. My memory of it is fuzzy, but IIRC, the STI guy described Sonic Team's reaction as them making "stone faces", which gives the impression that they didn't like what they saw. I can't remember where I saw the interview, though.

    Sonic Team, Sega America, Sega Japan, and the people who worked on the Sonic cartoons and comics all seemed to have different ideas on what Sonic should be, and Sonic Team didn't seem to like the way the western branches handled the character to some degree. The series was in a pretty odd situation from the start, I think.
     
  9. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    Just because they didn't animate a change in expression on Knuckles' face doesn't mean it wasn't supposed to be funny. He hits the lever but Sonic is still hanging on to the lever, so he starts hitting the lever more erratically, and Sonic is eventually overpowered by the wind. There is absolutely no reason they would have put that in the scene if it wasn't supposed to be humorous.
     
  10. Sid Starkiller

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    All I can really say is I personally didn't think it was supposed to be a joke. Let's leave it there rather than talk in circles.
     
  11. Wildcat

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    Gotta be honest. I would not like that whatsoever. Making Sonic full of himself would be a huge turnoff for me and I’m thinking for most people too.

    I know the attitude thing has always been part of his image (more so in the 90s I guess) but it was not about making him arrogant and obnoxious. Just that he was “too cool” and wouldn’t let’s others get in his way.
     
  12. nesboy43

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    I'm not saying Colors is a bad game by any means. But would it be anyone's preferred type of Sonic game?

    The game had its moments for me but the powerups execution really slowed things down as did the number of levels with reused assets.


    Interesting to hear. I suppose each game will have its own type of fans. Maybe the question to ask would be, do people prefer Sonic to keep trying different gameplay ideas (Wii is a good example), or do people want what they have already seen in the series?

    For me it'd be classic games all day. I don't like the Adventure games but have seen both online and in person (at the Mania Announcement Event for the 25th) how many people seem to really like those games.

    Well I can tell you that personally I prefer the boost games to Adventure, I really loved Generations but none of the other 3D games besides 3D Blast and R. That being said, if the majority of 3D fans prefer the Adventure gameplay (which is the vibe I get), then I would think it would make sense for Sega to go this route. Personally I think the adventure games are dated and were never too polished or fun, even for their time.

    Basically, if Classic Sonic gets to continue but the compromise is that all 3D games are Adventure style, I'll take it.

    My dream scenario would be more games with Generations 3D gameplay as well as a classic line of games.

    Off topic but it also really bugs me how both Generations and Mania are the best classic sonic games in years and they felt the need to reuse zones. Would've loved new classic games with entirely new environments.
     
  13. Pengi

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    If the 2D sections controlled more like Sonic 3 and had more curves and slopes, and the 3D sections controlled more like (or better than) Sonic Generations, I'd be all over it. It had very thoughtful, exploration driven level design and all the power-ups were fun to use.
     
  14. From a gameplay standpoint, Forces is basically Colors 2 (or Colors 3 if you count Lost World as Colors 2). Modern Sonic plays much more like how he does in Colors compared to the other boost games, and even needs White Wisps to fill up the boost gauge. The only difference is that Classic Sonic is there, Modern Sonic's move set has been stripped down even further, and the Color powers have been moved to the Avatar's Wisp-On arsenal (oh and I guess Shadow's playable too as DLC). They even copied and pasted the final boss from Colors. Sonic Team clearly doesn't understand why people like Colors and Generations, just like how they didn't understand why people liked the Classic games when they had Dimps work on Sonic 4.
     
  15. Frostav

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    "If Colors were a completely different game with literally zero relation to the game that it actually is, I'd be all for it"

    This is like when people say "06 could have been good! (if you change literally everything and make an entirely different game)".
     
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  16. Pengi

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    This is, once again, a situation where someone has different tastes in entertainment to you. I'm afraid you'll encounter this many times over the course of your life.

    I had a great time with Sonic Colours, enjoyed it enough to 100% it. It would need a few adjustments to be my preferred type of Sonic game (so would Sonic CD), but it did so many things well and the good far outweighed the bad.
     
  17. TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

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    That must've felt like a huge accomplishment. I got all the Red Star Rings but never got all S-ranks because the ranking system was so picky (I think I still have a ton of D's in Aquarium Park).
     
  18. nesboy43

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    It's strange to see fans of the Adventure games on a place liked Sonic Retro. In my opinion the major appeal about the site has always been that it is a community for those who love the older games.

    Is Sonic Adventure old enough that it is now retro? Maybe so.

    To me the Adventure games have always played like garbage and have always been unpolished. They also aged like raw meat. That being said, to some people they love them and I respect their opinion to like what they want.

    I think Sonic is at its best when it is simple/focused. Sonic 4, Lost World, Forces, and 06 show what Sonic is like when a game is all over the place.

    I hope that whatever game comes next, whether it is in the style of a nickolodeon cartoon, ultra serious anime, or arcade game, is focused and polished.
     
  19. Wafer

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    Seriously, just don't engage. You're not allowed to have an opinion, only they are. There's a pattern, just check every other thread they've participated in.

    You can go drinking with Sonic Adventure anywhere in the world that drinking is legal, with the exception of some parts of India. It's, like, over twice as old now as Sonic 1 was when Adventure came out. People get nostalgic about it. It's arguably retro by all but the strictest definitions.
     
  20. Sid Starkiller

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    I envy you. I could only get 50% S ranks (but I got minimum of A rank on every level); I just wasn't good enough.

    I can't imagine even their most ardent fans calling the Adventure games "polished". Much as I love parts of them, I certainly wouldn't call them that.
     
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