don't click here

The "Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles" Quest for Music Composer Research

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by T.Q., Nov 18, 2019.

Choose your favorite soundtrack version:

  1. Sonic The Hedgehog 3 -- Prototype / PC

  2. Sonic The Hedgehog 3 -- Mega Drive / Sega Genesis

  3. Sonic [3] & Knuckles -- Mega Drive / Sega Genesis

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Antheraea

    Antheraea

    Bug Hunter Member

    And then imagine how different Sonic music after those games would have been. Senoue has a ton of work/direction in the Adventure games...
     
  2. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    Member
    3,834
    558
    93
    -
    Fine, Hard Times is better than the proto Ice Cap, yes. But I'd happily trade that to have proto CNZ1, CNZ2 and LBZ2. I admit I prefer MJ's LB1, but I hate the Act 2 mix lol.

    My preference list is like this

    Proto CNz1 > MJ CNz1
    Proto CNz 2 > MJ CNz2
    Proto ICz1 < MJ ICz1
    Proto ICz2 > MJ ICz2
    Proto LBz1 < MJ LBz1
    Proto LBz2 > MJ LBz2
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2019
  3. I imagine Jacques would've had more work... Which would've been cool, since his JSR/JSRF contributions from that era were great. Fumie, Tokoi, and Setsumaru surely would've still contributed what they did too.
     
  4. rata

    rata

    Member
    691
    73
    28
    Argentina
    Trying to be useful somehow.
    Well, Jacques's music for 3D Blast isn't the best stuff, while it keeps a common theme on the tracks it seems quite repetitive and seems a bit too generic. I'm glad they had Senue and Maeda for that game, and I would kill for a high quality CD version of the soundtrack.
     
  5. Papa Rafi

    Papa Rafi

    One on one, I wanna play that game toniiight ♪ Oldbie
    91
    39
    18
    Detroit, Michigan, USA
    Fatherhood, husband...hood and a few mobile apps.
    EDIT: Fuck me running. In my sleep deprivation, I confused "shoot 'em up" with "first person shooter". After veiwing Metalwario64's post below, I now agree; that DOES belong in a Shoot 'Em Up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2019
  6. Metalwario64

    Metalwario64

    Member
    236
    117
    43
    It sounds an awful lot like the original Twinbee to me:
     
  7. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    Member
    3,834
    558
    93
    -
    I'm now thinking about it. Sky Sanctuary might be a Senoue track.
    He remixed the song twice, and both versions feature very different notes on the second loop.




    The original arrangement of the track featured new sections on the second loop. There's a chance these were added just for the album though.
     
    • Informative Informative x 5
    • List
  8. That actually makes a fair bit of sense. The more info we can gather on this kind of stuff, the better.

    Off-topic, but I’ve always personally found it weird that Sonic Generations used Sky Sanctuary Zone instead of something earlier-game. I know Sonic 3 wasn’t represented at all, but they could have placed Hydrocity or Marble Garden in there instead - both are early-game levels, rather than literally being right before the end of the game - or, as Knuckles, being the end of the game.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  9. sayonararobocop

    sayonararobocop

    Member
    241
    100
    43
    I imagine level-theming was the main idea, but totally agree. Hydrocity, Flying Battery, Marble Garden or Lava Reef would have been superior choices.
     
  10. Deep Dive Devin

    Deep Dive Devin

    Goblin Sex Researcher Member
    2,249
    1,229
    93
    OR
    I think Sky Sanctuary was probably the level in the game that can be least compared to anything from Sonic 1 or 2. Those games had lava levels, flooded ruins, airships and ancient temples as well.
     
  11. Papa Rafi

    Papa Rafi

    One on one, I wanna play that game toniiight ♪ Oldbie
    91
    39
    18
    Detroit, Michigan, USA
    Fatherhood, husband...hood and a few mobile apps.
    Speaking of that album —forgive me if this has already been mentioned, but I've meaning to mention it for days now—, some of the instrumentation choices and arrangements (more so the former) are strangely similar to what was done to these songs in S&KC. The instrumentation choices for Death Egg, remind me of the version from the GM set. And then there's the final boss; specifically the part at 1:00



    That synth arpeggio riff that plays before the song loops (at 1:00 for this version), is present in the S&KC version of the song as well, at least for the GM version —if I recall correctly, it is present on the FM Synth version as well—. And the way the shaker hits in the CD soundtrack version is the same as how the cymbals hit in the FM Synth version on SKC:
     

    Attached Files:

  12. That and Sandopolis. Unless you're filing it under ancient temples, which is fair.

    Oh yeah, wouldn't Mushroom Hill be safe to be considered a Jun composition given that it was used in Generations 3DS?
     
  13. Chibisteven

    Chibisteven

    Member
    1,367
    40
    28
    US
    I noticed a lot of the panning of instruments in the GM set is similar to this album. Where the panning for FM set is often similar to the final Genesis version. There's occasional differences here and there though.
     
  14. Nova

    Nova

    Member
    3,769
    186
    43
    Be careful of drawing conclusions like this. It may be a pretty safe assumption but that's all it is. Let's not start mixing up what is and isn't confirmed.
     
  15. PhotonSeek

    PhotonSeek

    Member
    68
    18
    8
    Agreed. It’s like when people assumed and even treated as fact that Sawada done 8-bit Sonic 2’s Underground Zone music based on him composing for both that and Sonic Gems Collection, despite said track not even sounding like his style (and he himself confirmed it wasn’t his track). The same goes with Mushroom Hill, as that doesn’t sound like Senoue to me, it was more likely Maeda or Ogawa but who knows. TL;DR: Rearrangement doesn’t imply composition most of the time.
     
  16. kazblox

    kazblox

    Member
    178
    27
    28
    Diassemblies and decompilations.
    Sky Sanctuary in the 11/03 prototype sounds a lot more closer to 11/03 Launch Base Zone 1, which absolutely sounds nothing like any of Senoue's work.
     
  17. Afro Thunder

    Afro Thunder

    Call Da Doctor! Member
    374
    22
    18
    NS, Canada
    Trying to get outta Dr. Dre mode, and actually release an album.
    MJ almost certainly directly worked on any tracks his team made. While its known he typically didn't play instruments on his own, save for a handful of songs, he definitely created the references for his producers to work around via beatboxing. Bill Bottrell, one of the producers on Dangerous, said as much before in interviews, and we have audio proof of this in a Thriller-era demo, plus Cirroco has stated he has similar beatboxed demos/concepts MJ sent to him So MJ was definitely hands on with the cues, and to anyone taking that MJCast interview with Buxer at face value, take it with a massive grain of salt about the Sonic 3 stuff.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • List
  18. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    Member
    3,834
    558
    93
    -
    Hmm, they do sound similar. I wonder if they were made by the same composer. The arrangement, indeed, seems to have been done by the same person, though.

    Anyways!

    I've talked with Dissident93 and we speculated the proto Credits theme was a Maeda track because how similar it's arragement is to Diamond Dust's.

    But now, I actually think the arpeggios at 0:32 onwards



    ...sound really similar to the arpeggios at 1:12 in Panic Puppet 2 (also a T. Maeda track)



    So yeah, the Staff Roll is definitely made by Tatsuyuki Maeda, or at least, the closest to 'definitely' we can get with the fragile legal situation of the tracks and the long time passed since their composition.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2019
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • List
  19. PhotonSeek

    PhotonSeek

    Member
    68
    18
    8
    My guess is that Maeda did Sky Sanctuary and proto Launch Base (along with several other tracks). I haven’t properly analysed them but they do carry his vibes (like chords and echoed lead).

    I’m also starting to wonder if Cube’s tracks even made it into the game. Some people have stated Marble Garden doesn’t sound like Takaoka’s style, although I’m not particularly familiar with her work. Her bonus stage music is known to have been scrapped too, possibly Sega ran out of time to implement all of the 3rd party tracks? If that’s the case I’m guessing Maeda done that track, leaving him and Ogawa as the ones who likely done any tracks with unconfirmed composers.
     
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2019
  20. rata

    rata

    Member
    691
    73
    28
    Argentina
    Trying to be useful somehow.
    While I'm the first one to agree that staff roll is 'definetly Maeda', you can't mark that as a true fact. We need something to make it official.

    PS: I fucking love PP2's bassline.