The "Sonic The Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles" Quest for Music Composer Research

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by T.Q., Nov 18, 2019.

Choose your favorite soundtrack version:

  1. Sonic The Hedgehog 3 -- Prototype / PC

  2. Sonic The Hedgehog 3 -- Mega Drive / Sega Genesis

  3. Sonic [3] & Knuckles -- Mega Drive / Sega Genesis

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  1. saxman

    saxman

    Oldbie Tech Member
    I am so late to this thread, and I'll admit I didn't read every single post. But what I have read, I will make this point, which is similar to what Laura said...

    I think it's very difficult to know who did what. Some clues are stronger than others, such as CNZ/ICZ/LBZ being done by MJ's folks... we don't know 100%, but I think it's pretty safe to say with 99% certainty. And the supporting evidence isn't exclusively tied to the makeup of the songs themselves, but the fact they were swapped in/out, in combination with what we know regarding legal issues and so forth. It would be shocking to find out these were done by anyone else.

    Some of the other music in the game isn't as easy to peg. I use my experience as a musician and song writer. It's very easy to make a song that kind of sounds like another song by coincidence. Music styles, theory, and influences get repeated throughout music generally.

    I'm not saying I think the efforts here are fruitless, but one must admit there's a very high level of speculation. When QJimbo's Sonic 3 was done, the case was being made for the ICZ and Smooth Criminal song connection, which I for one *never* bought into. Some of the other connections various folks on the internet made were just crazy to me, basically saying "oh yeah, this was clearly done by Michael Jackson" about songs that sounded nothing like his work, let alone the lack of evidence of his fingerprints being on any of the in-game songs.

    I don't want to come across poorly here. I encourage the efforts made here, but I am just not as optimistic about the ability to nail it down the way it really needs to be. We really need some concrete way of connecting with the composers in question.
     
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  2. BrevonJr

    BrevonJr

    Too many hyperfixations, not much time and energy Member
    That's why, in my first part, I already went over most of the already confirmed tidbits; to rule out those people that debunked to have been responsible for most of S3's music. Jun mentioning he only did the bonus stages, Milpo only the Blue Spheres, Sawada only the S3 theme (+ its arrangements), etc. I don't think anyone so far was lying about their work or trying to hide their involvement.

    Unfortunately, some people just seemingly can't be reached out at all atm. This makes me unable to break through that dreadful "it's just theories"-barrier.
    I'll admit that my thoughts definitely go against some of the previous assumptions here. And yes, I also mention the style of music, but I definitely don't want to rely solely on that. I did look at some archived sites and some more interviews, and I will keep on looking for stuff like that! :o

    Also, I will always only mention the SEGA-side of the music, already mentioned that I don't wanna open that can of worms that is M.J.
     
  3. Forte

    Forte

    I speak better after three beers Member
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    Well, the Ice Cap - MJ theory kick-started the whole Sonic 3 Music research and theories thing, right?

    Would we know as much as we know today if not for crazy theories, that people tried to prove/disprove back then?

    Also - Hard Times is awesome.
     
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  4. Ben2k9

    Ben2k9

    We stand to Fight Oldbie
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    no it was CNZ/Jam by me back on Sonic Classic.
     
  5. LevelSelect

    LevelSelect

    Member
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    While looking up a bunch of music credits for various albums, I discovered sadly that Cirocco Jones and Doug Grigsby III from the MJ team had both passed away in early 2021.

    Article on Doug Grigsby III:
    https://www.inquirer.com/obituaries...ti-labelle-bassist-philadelphia-20210306.html

    I won't post the funeral service information for Jones, please respect his family and friends and don't go bother them. Maybe instead go read his book about the business of music recording.
     
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  6. Ashura96

    Ashura96

    HEROIC VERSE Oldbie
    Holy shit. I saw the news about Grigsby passing away but was not aware of Jones too. RIP.
     
  7. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
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    Mega Man Zero: The Definitive Dub
    I can't find any info about Jones's death...are you sure?
     
  8. Xilla

    Xilla

    Super! Smashing! Member
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    I just looked up his socials and yeah it appears to be true. He passed away January last year :(
     
  9. Wow I was more shocked about Jones’ passing than anyone else considering the circumstances and the fact that he had messaged me about the Sonic 3 stuff

    RIP and my condolences to both men
     
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  10. The Joebro64

    The Joebro64

    SAY HELLO TO MY CHOCOLATE BLEND Member
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    Shit, I knew about Grigsby but hadn’t heard about Jones. Condolences to both of their families.
     
  11. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    The number of people related to the Sonic3 OST dwindle slowly but dangerously.
    I wonder if any of them left notes or accounts of their work to the world to read?
     
  12. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    My condolences to them both.
     
  13. Ben2k9

    Ben2k9

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    aww that really sucks :( RIP to both of them
     
  14. Knew about Grigsby, wasn't aware of Jones.
    May they both rest in peace.
     
  15. DefinitiveDubs

    DefinitiveDubs

    The Voice Maestro Member
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    Damn, over a year ago and none of us knew. It was due to COVID, apparently.
     
  16. pkderbar

    pkderbar

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    RIP.
     
  17. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    So, another victim of COVID.
    Didn't say before, will say now.
    RIP, condolences to the families.
     
  18. Sorry for the bump here, but if I may go back to this part of the thread and share my thoughts, I think some of the things listed here do kinda make sense and if Uwabo, Nagao, Setsumaru, Kashima, Sawada, Senoue, Takaoka and Drossin all tell the truth and they haven't done any more work on Sonic 3&K than what we know now, then it'd make sense that the other composers (Maeda, Hikichi and possibly Ogawa?) would be responsible for the majority of the non-MJ OST. There are points to this that make it believable and, to an extent, I'd agree.
    Now attributing each track to a particular composer via speculating is another thing. I wouldn't be able to tell ya who of these three might've done what.
    And it's not like these three weren't credited for composing the majority (if not the entirety in some cases) of the music on other SEGA games, be they before Sonic 3 or after, because they were. And I am also very much interested in seeing just what the three remaining composers have to say or share in regards to their work on Sonic 3 if anything, assuming they're even allowed to say anything by this point and THAT'S assuming someone can actually reach out and contact them in the first place, which I'm still hopeful for.
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2022
  19. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    To be honest, my guess as to why Uwabo, Setsumaru, and Kashima are listed in S3K's credits as such is because they are the ones who wrote the code that plays the audio - the sound driver, if you will. Much of the same code is also used in Sonic 3D, in which this message is hidden inside the ROM:
    Code (Text):
    1. Sound Driver for Sonic Series
    2. Coded by Y.Kashima & M.Sets.
    3. Sun Sep  1 1996 17:02
    As for Uwabo? From a non-Sonic version of the same code:
    Code (Text):
    1. ;********************************************************
    2. ;*      $$$CNT.SRC  ( SOUND CONTROL MAIN )  *
    3. ;*              ORG. M5CNT13.SRC                *
    4. ;*      'SOUND-SORCE'                           *
    5. ;*       for Mega Drive (Z80)           *
    6. ;*          VER  1.31/1989.12.10        *
    7. ;*              BY        T.Uwabo       *
    8. ;********************************************************
    Some composing and coordination credits also seem to exist for them, but I figured this was worth mentioning.
     
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