Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

Ah man, it really sucks when that happens. It may for the best not to watch the game as closely from now on and, if need be, play it when it's the right time so you can even get surprised by the game. When we're exposed to every nook and cranny of the game before we see the whole package, we tend to scrutinize each bit in a way we aren't even able to when experiencing the game as a whole. So backing off for now might make the game, where every detail falls into place, better for you than it is right now.

I mean I could make a case for the stage concepts still being promising, but I guess if you don't like it, then you don't like it. The visual identity does veer off from the Classics quite a bit, and not just because it uses models instead of sprites. So I see where you're coming from when you mention the magic of the predecessors (or the lack thereof).

 

As someone that's still looking forward to the game and trying to follow from a distance to avoid spoilers. I will say that Superstars at this point strikes me as a MD sequel that if you're a veteran with the MD games going in, and you're bringing in comparisons to the previous game [Mania] especially. I predict it's going to feel like a late-stage draft for a modernized MD Sonic game that has the basics down and some good ideas beyond them, but is still lacking in refinement and/or polish in its execution. Which for a studio with a unremarkable track record like Arzest is admittedly a big step up, especially after the banal Balan Wonderworld. But one could probably also imagine what Evening Star, or another studio with a really good track record with platformers, could had done with Superstars if they were behind this project.

Those concerns aside, I do think it will likely go down better for general audiences and probably most reviewers regardless. I think Superstars' entire hook about it being a modernized attempt at MD gameplay and being the first largely original Sonic package in years (which were two of the biggest complaints about Mania, the large bulk of reused content and it being retro to a fault in terms of accessibility/difficulty/progression) is going to win over plenty of people. Especially with it getting the core gameplay right from the start, as people who have played its demos have reported. I doubt it will review as well as Mania [Plus] (mid-80s-low 90s metascores), but I think the reception should at least be generally positive. I also think there's also a lot of existing factors in play that could make Superstars a somewhat surprising commercial hit, to the same extent that Frontiers was if not beyond that.

(And keep in mind, I'm speaking as someone who's just happy to see that following Mania's success, MD Sonic gameplay hasn't been completely abandoned [again] and isn't being directly designed by Sonic Team themselves.)

 

Part of it is also that Mania was the point at which "a true new classic sequel" was no longer a holy grail for the series. So unless Superstars did something else Sonic hasn't been able to do for decades, it's necessarily going to feel a little less special.

 

This has actually been a good thing for me honestly. I feel like my peak in the Sonic fandom was in the leadup to Sonic Mania. After that point, I started getting into other game series and TV shows because the Sonic series just wasn't providing quality. I'm much more mellow on the Sonic series now and actually think it's been better for me.

I feel like the fandom has stagnated with some exceptions too (I think @Lapper is the most talented contemporary analyst, and of course the fan programming and hacking scene is probably at its most talented right now). Not really anyone's fault, because I think we've exhausted most of the games right now. Analysis fandom wise is now heading into revisionism on games which I think are just badly designed (Unleashed) and so I've also just fallen out of the fandom too. The main reason I come on here is because it's the only old fashioned forum which I know still exists and I like the community.

This will be a surprise to absolutely no one, but I have issues with obsessiveness. So ever since I started to move away from Sonic I've started to be much more chill with Sonic announcements and take them for what they are. I didn't like Frontiers and criticised it when it came out, but I haven't given it any thought since. It's just not a very good game. But I appreciate what it was trying to do on its own terms. I don't mind that it doesn't have momentum physics or whatever. To be honest, I've started to appreciate Nakamura's artistic vision generally and look at Colors-Frontiers in a new light. It's not what I'd want out of Sonic, but I don't really care that much anymore, and I think Colors and Generations do what they set out to do well.

I feel similarly about Superstars. I agree with @VectorCNC on mostly everything they said. But I just don't really mind. I've seen enough to convince me it'll be an entertaining 7/10 or 8/10 game. That's fine enough. Not every game needs to be a 10/10.

 

I'm hoping I can get to that point with it. Frontiers mostly weaned me off of Sonic discussion but I still see Superstars and I can't really respect it. I haven't been nearly as compelled to weigh in this time either. Sometimes you can sway sega with feedback but the winds aren't really in my favor this time so I haven't seen the point.

 

Im still looking forward to this game. Also I guess part of why I’m excited is because I’m personally sick of 2D pixel art for Classic Sonic. Either it’s been that same crappy Generations model or sprites sprites sprites sprites and sprites. Ya, Mania looked nice, but it looked like the classics but nicer, and that’s fine but I don’t want Classic Sonic to be limited to just pixel art. It’s not 1995, more styles can exist. I like that it’s different, and I feel like them moving on also shows they aim to keep Classic around now rather than just saving him for the occasional nostalgia pandering.

Perhaps it’s the fan girl in me but sometimes I feel like Classic is held to such a standard that even the slightest deviation will cause people to not like it (insert 80% of origins nitpicking here, I acknowledge origins wasn’t perfect but it’s not like their original counterparts were either). If it were up to some people I feel like we’d just get Mania over and over again.

But I’ll attest I haven’t talked much about Superstars either, but then what’s to talk about lol. It’s Classic Sonic. It’s him. I really look forward to playing it but what else can I say? Mario Wonder looks fun too haven’t talked about that for the same reason, despite the new stuff the core is what I’ve grown to expect from 2D Mario.

 

I will wholly attest that if this game had been polished HD sprites, I would be a lot more excited for it.

 

Oh I’d also have happily taken 2D drawn sprites ala Wario Land Shake it or Rayman Origins/Legends. A Hesse drawn game would’ve been to die for.

No I’m just sick of the Genesis aesthetic and forced limitations.

 

I'd be find with handdrawn, or even a full 2.5D game. The way Superstars handles it just makes it look cheap and I'm not a fan of that.

 

Can I ask what you mean by “full 2.5D” game? The only example I can think of not being a “full 2.5D” game is Rush because it only had 3D models with drawn backgrounds, but this one has 3D environments.

 

@BlueSkiesAM2 by that definition Sonic 4 Episode 1 would count too, and that looked like poop

Episode 2 didn’t look too bad, I actually played through it on my phone recently. Actually, this game looks like a better version of that. Whether that’s good enough or not I guess depends on your tastes?

This game really does seem like “Sonic 4: we tried harder this time” lol

 

What I assume they mean is how the game uses its 3D space. Compare Forces Classic, where the stages have 3D backdrops but maintain a static camera throughout, to Generations Classic, where Sonic will move across many different planes with the camera shifting focus and angle. Classic Sonic's stages in Generations have 2D gameplay, but they require 3D graphics to function, which is not true of other entries.

Ultimately it's a difference in production value, but either way I can't really get along with most of the criticisms. The game is colorful, it doesn't have the most insane fidelity, but I think "cheap" is a bad word for it. The rim lighting on everything might be a bit much, but I can't say it looks cheaper than, like, newer Kirby games. And I love the look of those games!

 

Also maybe one reason for the simpler background detail than, say, Generations and Forces, maybe they just wanted to devote time to more important things. Remember all those interviews back in the day when they were bitching about how hard it was to shove all that detail in these long levels that go by in the blink of an eye because you’re so damn fast? Maybe this and similarly Frontiers cyberspace intentionally decreased the background clutter to save time.

 

I haven't weighed in much about Superstars because I simply couldn't find the motivation to do so. I can't say I'm really hyped for it, but I don't know if it's that's because of the quality of the game is lacking or just my personal disinterest in the Sonic brand as a whole as of late.

Frontiers was extremely polarizing for me as for everything I liked, there was something terrible that would just bring it down for me. Made for a very uneven experience and I haven't had the motivation to touch the game since.

Superstars doesn't really evoke any feelings from me either way though. There's nothing offensive enough for me to say it's bad, but there's nothing particularly inspired about it either. So I'm just kind of ambivalent about it.


I dunno, I guess I'm just not down for this overly corporate and bland design choices they've been sticking to for this series. It's a similar feeling I had towards the Mario series way back I'm the 2010's before Odyssey came out and they just rehashed the same aesthetics ad nausem and what eventually became of the Paper Mario series. It's bland to put it simply, like white bread.

I suppose this is partially my fault though because my expectations and ideals for Sonic are clearly much higher than Sega's, who are of course more concerned with profit and mass market appeal as opposed to catering to my old crusty ass.

And of course my tastes at 30 years old are clearly different than when I was in elementary school. I simply desire a bit more smidgen complexity in my video games, which might explain my preference for more challenge based genres like Fighting Games or character action. Genres that notoriously have a difficult time appealing to mainstream audiences.

Sonic Mania was pretty special to me because it's very clearly catering to that part of me in additions to all of the old school references; and on a more shallow front, I'm a sucker pixel art, sue me. Fighting games drifting away from sprite work annoys me to. But I recognize that isn't necessarily what is popular with Sonic's target demographic.

All of this is to say, I'm an old man who hates change and wants things to go back to how it used to be when I liked the series

But Superstars looks fine and I'll probably check it out... at a much later date cuz Spider-Man 2 and Super Mario Wonder have my name on it come October.

 

@Sonic5993 funny you mention wanting to play more complex games as you get older, I actually find the opposite happening, I’m too tired to want to invest in overly complicated games. Fighting games especially, if I didn’t want to take the time as a kid to figure them out I’m not going to do it now. How I had the tenacity to 100% 06 back in the day is beyond me, Shadow too I think. I’d never be able to pull that off now, if only because I just don’t want to.

So where as in October your opting for Spider Man 2, I’m getting this, as I own Spider Man 1 and have still yet to beat it because there’s just so much. Zelda TotK is extremely intimidating to me and it’s preventing me from wanting to pick that up more often too. Haven’t started God of War Ragnorok or whatever it’s called for similar reasons. This is what I expect, and something I’ve had a blast with before, so I’m getting this and I can enjoy it without getting a headache. But I’ll prob be getting Mario Wonder too (funny how both that game and World can be referred to as SMW)

And I don’t care what everyone else here says I loved Frontiers lol.

 

@Sonic5593, I don't think it's "crusty" to prefer things the way there were, when your critique that it has become "corporate" is legitimate. Corporate is another word for "uninspiring", in my view...

Like, I'm pleased that Classic Sonic might receive its own permanent line of development, and I can also understand and accept the choice of using 2.5D instead of hand-drawn 2D. I can see the advantages of 2.5D in terms of generating more dynamic gameplay and camerawork – it reminds me of games like Viewtiful Joe, although that might be a nostalgic reference. However, I have to admit that I will never be fully satisfied until the art direction improves and storyline matures. Simply making the game look like Pixar, Donkey Kong, Ratchet and Clank, or other same-y albeit visually appealing franchises is not enough for Sonic The Friggin' Hedgehog... I believe it's essential to go beyond creating asset-rich environments that essentially rehash familiar tropes. Sure it’s “polished”, but it lacks soul and those things which set it apart from others.

Of course, I understand that Sega often struggles to nail down the gameplay mechanics, which likely explains why they prioritize aesthetics and worldbuilding less. It seems like they believe creating unique environments and maintaining a coherent design philosophy demands extra resources that most consumers wouldn't value. However, I strongly believe this is a significant mistake on their part and results in diminishing returns.

Based on my personal experience, and I believe this sentiment is widely shared, what initially drew me to the series were its imaginative settings, complementary color palettes, captivating music, and unique badniks. It wasn't an inherent attraction to blue hedgehogs; rather, it was the distinctive style of the Sonic games that captivated me. This particular art direction set it apart from anything else and left me addicted to the series.

Likewise, with Mario, it's not just the exceptional platforming that made the games stand out; they also perfected a signature and reassuring aesthetic that has remained consistent since Mario 3 / Super Mario World. Most people would probably agree that if this design had been inconsistent over the decades, the Mario brand would have undoubtedly suffered. A consistent and well-defined artistic style plays a crucial role in building a strong and recognizable identity for a game franchise.

I find it genuinely perplexing that many people, including those in the Retro community, can be such dedicated fans of Sonic but appear to solely emphasize the gameplay. I fail to comprehend how someone can label themselves a significant fan of something while disregarding the dilution of its distinctive attributes (I’m only speaking generally, I realize people have issues with green eyes, and quill length, etc). To analogize, imagine if you ordered a bathroom renovation in a dark modern aesthetic, but then what you received was something resembling a cape cod beach house… It wouldn’t be enough that the plumbing functioned adequately, and that the basic fixtures where installed – it would have failed to meet your expectations. White shiplap and a Home Depot prefab vanity is not going to cut it when your expectation was for satin-black hexagonal tiles and a floating metal vanity, etc. The experience would be entirely different.

 

At the end of the day, Sega are going to do what makes them money. Sure, in an ideal world Sega would be able to balance catering to casual and dedicated fans alike like so many other companies can do. But they clearly aren't interested in doing that, at least beyond a superficial level.

And more to the point, regardless of how we feel about it, Sonic's more popular than he's ever been. I think Frontiers is kind of rubbish but it's also fast approaching being the best selling 3D game, so clearly what I feel about doesn't matter.

And more than anything else, I'm just tired of obsessing about this series and getting into constant debates that ultimately go nowhere. I'd rather just play other franchises I enjoy and actually have fun for once. I just turned 30 a few months ago, I have more important things to worry about in my life than Sonic the Hedgehog.

In other words, I do not wish to be angry or sad anymore, I just wanna be happy.

 

Does Mario have a consistent aesthetic? I really wouldn’t say so. 3 looks different than World which then looked drastically different from Yoshi's Island (which is still technically SMW2, so it’s a Mario game I’m counting it); 64, Sunshine, Galaxy, and Odyssey all have different art directions. The only commonly consistent elements are like the hills have eyes, and the only Mario sub series to keep up a maintained aesthetic was the nsmb series, and that’s often considered soulless and by the numbers, basically Mario’s Sonic 4 but they made 5 of them. Look no further than the fact peach’s castle almost never looks the same, even though it’s supposed to be a concrete location (which just happens to constantly change). The aesthetic might not vary as much as, say, 3D Sonic’s, but still, if you want to get into a series with a consistent visual identity this ain’t it (Kirby is a series that I say has a very strong and consistent visual identity. The biggest change they’ve done lately is make Dedede’s pupils smaller).

Sonic also drew me in from its style, I still feel like this has that, even if not 100%. And I’m someone who almost exclusively likes the classic art style over the modern one. Just because I’m not being hyper critical of this/actually kinda like it doesn’t mean I don’t get classic sonic though, idk if that’s a fair generalization.

But at the same time, if the games don’t make you happy and you don’t enjoy them, nothing wrong with that either. Different strokes for different folks. Tastes change, people move on. I got a weird soft spot for Sonic I don’t think will ever go away, prob because in a life full of inconsistency, Sonic was always there in one way or another, going through awkward times growing up just like me. I’m still very much looking forward to this, but if you prefer, say, Spider Man 2, yea go for it that’s prob a good game too, even if it might not be 100% up my alley. I’ve spent enough of my life defending my interests and what I like while pretending to like other things to save face, but I’m 32 now and I’m tired of arguing and this ain’t high school, I’m not going to listen to Led Zeppelin because my classmates like it. I like this black eyed chubby blue fast rat and his friends, I'm excited for this game, and I stand by that lol.

 

I am beginning to become so hyped for Superstars, god damn. Finished reading all the Game Informer articles and I’m fairly confident I’m going to love it now. From Pizza Tower, Dead Space, Gollum, and RE4 to TotK, Pikmin 4, Mario Wonder, and now this, 2023 is not beating the good game releases allegations.

 

Excuse you? I’m all for live and let live but that only goes so far

Also, Sega, if you’re adding dlc or anything please bring Mighty and Ray back too. That might be my favorite thing about Mania, it brought them back from the dead and Mighty has consistently been a favorite of mine.