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Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by DefinitiveDubs, Jun 8, 2023.

  1. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
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    What a weird take. Have you ever seen hills with checkerboard tiles? Or cities with lanes that loop around themselves? To reduce Sonic 1's stage concepts to the basic common denominators it has with the stages that followed them and are based on them has to be some kind of malicious hindsight.

    Plus, he's obviously talking about stages like Music Plant and Techno Base. Dismissing his argument because of the examples he's not talking about really makes it look like you're jumping to defend the game first and giving it a thought second, and I'd like to believe that isn't the case. It's perfectly valid to want new sights and concepts, and it isn't actually hard to imagine new biomes or entirely new ways to navigate a concept you could call a "factory". Toy Kingdom and Wacky Workbench Good Future are closer to each other in base concept than, say, Green Hill and Angel Island. And yet, they're completely different.

    Sure, it's also valid to point out we ARE getting fresh new stages. Gold Capital doesn't look like anything we've seen before, and stages having character-specific acts means we're getting new spins on gameplay. And, as mentioned, stages do seem to change across acts. So we can understandably hope for a lot of variety and excitement.
     
    Last edited: Jul 27, 2023
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  2. Deep Dive Devin

    Deep Dive Devin

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    I really just keep thinking "Elden Ring" every time I hear "Gold Capital". The idea of zipping around Leyndell with Sonic controls is hilarious.
     
  3. Sneasy

    Sneasy

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    There is a reason why Green Hill is the most remembered of Sonic 1, and not just because of how it's the first and fastest level. What's memorable about Spring Yard or Star Light has nothing to do with the theme of the level itself. That's the level design. Spring Yard is a city. Star Light is a city. Scrap Brain is a factory, a completely bog standard factory even for the time.

    It may be a consequence of Sonic 1 being the first but that still does mean it's not particularly imaginative. And we know of unused concepts that would have easily been more memorable, like the golden city, so it's not like they didn't have the creative capacity to make more imaginative levels.

    Sonic Advance has cool new level themes, but it also has themes like Leaf Forest and Ice Mountain. Even Route 99 is rote by the time of Advance 3. Not every single level in every Sonic game was unique and imaginative before Superstars, is my point.

    Why is Superstars unoriginal because Speed Jungle is a jungle factory? To reduce Sky Temple to just "sky" when there isn't many sky levels in Sonic, and this one has an aesthetic and theme that separates it from Wing Fortress or Sky Sanctuary.

    [​IMG] [​IMG]

    I already pointed out that Superstars does do unique things with its themes, and it's also valid to point out that other games had unoriginal or simple themes too.

    We know nothing about Press Factory to say it's derivative, let alone "obviously derivative of Press Garden". Which itself is a weird statement because Press Garden is one of the most imaginative level themes in classic Sonic. A newspaper factory that transforms into a Japanese garden at winter. It's not like doing Green Hill again. If Press Factory is even half derivative of Press Garden, that alone would make it unique and original.
     
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  4. Palas

    Palas

    Don't lose your temper so quickly. Member
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    You don't understand: in Sonic 1, every single level concept was new. We, 6.25e-5% of the world population, know about golden city (and even then, I actually didn't know about it), but there wre no cities like Sonic's when it was launched. Your perception that it's stale necessarily comes from the fact that these concepts were reused, and the fact that Sonic 1, by essence and definition, defined the visual language that Sonic would come to use forever. This is why you actually can't discern a level's theme from its design. The design is part of the theme.

    Also, Green Hill being memorable is a fabrication. A conscious one at that. It may be constantly alluded to because it's memorable, but it's also memorable because it's constantly alluded to, and that's because it's the one stage they know everyone who has ever played Sonic 1 has seen. It's "Sonic's" stage because of that. It's clearly a construction, not an innate property of the stage that doesn't depend on anything else. You're being like those people who say Jane Austen already used romantic comedy clichés.

    I promise you no one is bringing up Sonic Advance to talk about Leaf Forest and Ice Mountain. This isn't a comparative value judgement on the games, and yu're getting defensive about Superstars for no reason. @ItalianForce didn't say "Advance trilogy had all-new imaginative concepts" or "the Advance trilogy is better than Superstars because it had new themes". Here's what he said:

    Which is true. The non-imaginative concepts in the classic or Advance trilogy are not being talked about, and to bring them up is plain bad faith because yu don't need to do that to do exactly what you did, and I acknowledged in my post that you did, which is this:

    Because that's the proper counterpoint. Trying to demean other games isn't, especially when it doesn't make sense.

    Most likely. I don't even mind the comparatively simple backgrounds that someone else has mentioned, because I think it's healthy for a 2D game with 3D models not to clutter the screen too much (since the models already tend to take up a lot of space). I'm as excited as you are to see what it's about, as well as all the other stages we know nothing about.

    Superstars will be a cool game.
     
  5. Zephyr

    Zephyr

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    Sonic already pulls from ball games. So adding more ball game mechanics is only natural.

    That's not true, actually. Two images from that Game Informer article have "press factory" in their filenames:
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Can't really tell what's "press" about it, but it's very clearly a factory. I do like those big gears in what is presumably Act 1, and all the green lighting in what is presumably Act 2.
     
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  6. Starduster

    Starduster

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    Actually I brought up Chemical Plant and Leaf Forest as examples of generic Zone names :v
     
  7. I get being cautious but it really seems like a huge leap of logic to assume every level in this game is somehow generic based on footage of 2 early game zones and random screenshots of others. And why is this the second time I've seen someone assume Press Factory is gonna be Press Garden 2.0 just because they both start with Press? Again, huge leap of logic.

    Ignoring all that, I don't like how empty the levels seem based on the screenshots. I am somewhat optimistic that won't be the case since Bridge Island Zone is pretty jammed packed with detail and stuff to interact with, so hopefully these are just some poorly chosen screenshots.

    The sky level sounds interesting, a single act zone potentially that early in the game is really odd. Sounds like it'll be great though based on what the previewer wrote.
     
  8. Mercury

    Mercury

    His Name Is Sonic Tech Member
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    I'm looking forward to updating my zone name word cloud:

    zone words.png
     
  9. Lambda

    Lambda

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    Maybe this isn't the right topic to discuss this, but I am interested in what games are and arent included, and how that is decided.
     
  10. Last edited: Jul 28, 2023
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  11. Felik

    Felik

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    The new screenshots strongly reminded me of Sonic Lost World, especially the golden stage with its "random geometry pieces and objects in a void" design. Really feels like it's gonna be a "gimmick stage" and not in a good way.
     
  12. shilz

    shilz

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    I was recommended this video and I don't think I've actually seen anyone else talk about it. It's mostly just a summary of what they have planned but there's a few glimpses of new video footage in between the regular b roll.
     
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  13. Snowbound

    Snowbound

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    A playable demo of Sonic Superstars is now confirmed for gamescom:
     
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  14. Deef

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    I'm looking forward to the game, but I do expect to be underwhelmed by the emerald abilties. The concept itself is good fun; I assume practically every Sonic fan here has imagined it being a thing since the 90s.

    But what I expect we'll encounter is some well-designed uses, and some good teaching implementations, and then a lot of really lazy ones. I just think the emerald abilities will fall victim to that part of game design we often see that's just "Get it done, make it a thing first, don't worry about depth too much".

    What I would like to see are 7 abilities where:
    • The time or place to use them is clever, creative, or playful.
    • The inherent usage of them is itself playful.
    What I expect to see are a select few cases of those 2 things happening, and a majority of cases where they don't.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    The Vision ability, for example, sounds like it is doing the complete opposite. The idea of having an auto prompt appear for the rest of the game once you've grabbed that emerald sounds... terrible, tbh. I can think of several ways that would make the discovery of when/where to use the Vision ability a clever/creative/playful thing, then further ideas again for making the actual use of the ability playful in its own right. I imagine we all can. But by the sounds of it there will be no such thing in the game; it's just "Use ability here. Ability does this. Done."

    From there, my expectation is that kind of design focus will appear across all the abilities. Not just as a jaded Sonic fan (which I am), but just from seeing that kind of thing in games in general. The emerald abilities aren't a core hook of the game, so they'll be applied in a fairly dull, possibly patronising, kind of way.

    _____________________________________________________________________

    To be fair, I imagine Vision will probably be the worst. Here are some positive angles:
    • The feature where the Water ability allows you to interact with the otherwise natural, non-interactive, background waterfalls is a good example of something I like. Had it not already been spoilt for us (and assuming the game also didn't spoil it... which it does), that would be a really fun discovery to make.
    • The Slow ability could totally deliver some playful implementation, and creative discovery in moments that aren't obvious. There could be bosses where bullet time leads to alternate strategies, attack or damage modes that didn't otherwise exist, etc., as opposed to just easier/faster strategies. Etc.
    • The Homing Attack has always had the potential to be a playful move. It almost never is; 95% of the time we see it, it's a tool more than a toy. But maybe this time, with it necessarily being unnecessary, that will be different.


    For bonus ponts, I'd love aspects where ability or character-move combinations provide further rewards.

    Anyway, that's my thoughts on that. For the most part, I suspect the emerald abilities will be fairly uninspired. I don't think this will really hurt the game though, and will probably add more than it removes.

    That auto prompt with Vision in particular, that one I do not like the sound of.
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2023
  15. Well optional abilities that you pick up typically always have a problem of being poorly or underutilized. I’d much prefer to see additions made to the base moveset that open new movement options throughout the game like the Advance series (which I’ve grown to appreciate more and more over the years). Pulling up a wheel and selecting a power seems like too much of a directed/ad hoc mechanic that requires specific design, rather than something that, as you said, you can play around with throughout the game.
     
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  16. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    Couple of interesting new(ish) titbits of info sourced from Twitter:
    In particular, the music clip sounds a heck of a lot better than the versions people have attempted to isolate from existing footage - the track sounds a lot more layered and polished than I'd initially thought. Don't know if it's actually a more polished mix or just the result of finally hearing it in full quality, but either way I'm liking it a lot more than I did initially.
     
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  17. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    Slice of life visual novel, coming soon...?
    These kinda vibes are peak 2D Sonic music. Hearing it just made my day better :)
     
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  18. Lambda

    Lambda

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    Wow. That melody actually makes me think a lot of Faded Hills from Sonic Forces:

    The overall arrangement is very different (and Bridge Island's arrangement and tempo are much better, don't get me wrong), but I don't know that I love the melody right off-the-bat. Maybe once I get to hear more it'll grow on me.

    Good to finally have a clear sample of the music, though. Just waiting for Speed Jungle now... I'm guessing that was the song in the Nintendo Direct trailer. That song rules, IMHO. Very Teelopesy.
     
    Last edited: Jul 31, 2023
  19. Snowbound

    Snowbound

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    I like the music. It sounds like a Sonic 4 composition with a Sonic Mania-esque arrangement.
     
  20. astroblema

    astroblema

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    I....... don't like it. It sounds like a generic old school platformer thing from a modern cheap Android game. At least from that excerpt. Sorry if I'm sounding too negative.

    The music from the Nintendo Direct trailer was good imo but I didn't like the Casio keyboard instrumentation. I hope the rest of the music in the game isn't like this.

    This is weird to me because the Mania OST is my favorite music ever, and Tee Lopes said on Twitter he thought his work in Superstars was better than his work in Mania. Idk, I'll judge better when the game comes out.
     
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