Sonic Lost World (Wii U, 3DS, PC) Megathread

Seeing how the game was even conceived around Yuji Naka's demo of a rolling ball on curved surfaces... yes, the physics and momentum-based gameplay were Sonic's main thing.

 

Ehhh... Maybe not purely physics, but movement is definitely a huge part of what makes a Sonic game satisfying to play, and physics are a big factor in how it feels to move around. I would expect a game based around parkour gimmicks to play a lot more fluidly, but Lost World rarely gives me the sort of satisfaction I have playing most other Sonic games.

 

I think I'm getting material for another round of "iGamr's Criticism Collection Plus".

• Being expected to headbutt a bomb to attack some kind miniboss. Not a spin-jump, but a normal head-first jump off of a cloud. If Sonic games have taught me one thing, it's to NEVER touch an enemy/hazard if I'm not in a ball.
• The game introduced a level gimmick of a dragon's roar suddenly destroying solid-looking platforms. While I was standing on the platforms. Above a bottomless pit.
• Is it just me, or does the difficulty of parkour paths really start to spike? Suddenly I'm being asked to do absurd things over bottomless pits when I barely even got to practice these things in a safe environment. Were we supposed to get more parkour levels instead of gimmicky stuff like fruit-blending and snowballs?
• The red ring paths in particular are getting more and more difficult to navigate cleanly.
  • Precision platforming with awkward bent gravity so the slightest course correction sends me veering toward a bottomless pit. Fun.
  • Trying not to get crushed by Thwomp rip-offs while using the run button (trying to go fast enough to not die) resulted in Sonic failing to climb a tiny ledge he could have just jumped over. So he got crushed.
  • Tried to use a spring that I thought would put me in position to get a red ring, but I got railroaded through boosters and springs right into a checkpoint so I couldn't even kill myself to try again.

Again, some of it's nitpicking, but there are design decisions I can't help but seriously question.

 

It's not just the parkour, as a whole the game has issues with not explaining or demonstrating things properly. Towards the end of LMZ3, there's a section where you have two paths - either pull off a long wallrunning section above lava, or use a Hover Wisp light dash above lava.

The lava is instant death, and the game never mentions that the spindash button is what activates the light dash. I don't think you have enough room to do the "wall-jump around corner" trick to start wallrunning, either (could be wrong though).

this game is like the CNZ barrel all over again :v:

 

It's nice to know I'm not the only one who thinks this, at least. In fact, looking back at my lists of complaints, "Not teaching you shit" might as well be the central theme of the whole game.

 

I think the controls in Lost World are terrible but at least it actually functions at the core level as a videogame, unlike 06 :v:

 

Yeah, which is great! The alternate routes are pretty refreshing to have in LW, and although most of them have too high of a difficulty curve to them, I don't mind new stage gimmicks at all. It's all pretty good stuff and I hope they try a bit more ideas and improve on it.

But the problem that makes LW still a pretty meh game is that said classic-inspired level design is meant to have momentum-based movement going across it. You can't just throw slopes, hills and loops into a game and not include the gameplay that compliments it, because then it's there for no reason at all... which is why dash pads and springs are spammed everywhere in the game and it constantly takes control away from you, so that you don't recognize the other half of the recipe isn't there.

Slopes and hills and alternate paths were there because the gameplay suited it, and the gameplay style existed to make use of slopes, hills and alternate paths. There's no "level design is more important" schlock about it, they go hand in hand. That's how the whole gameplay thing even works in the first place; I mean you can't just throw Mario 64 maps and objectives into Rayman 2 and still call it a proper Mario game just because the level design and base requirements (such as running and jumping) are there.

Granted I'm not arguing like you don't agree with that, nor am I saying LW's gameplay is by any means irreedemable (because I don't), or that I think all these different gameplay styles don't find their own ways to fit into the Sonic mold somehow or another (because they do), ooor am I saying this conversation isn't tired as balls (because it is).

But I do think that stating LW's lack of momentum-based movement as a huge detriment to the gameplay is a perfectly valid statement. I mean, the overwhelming amount of automation and jerky stop-go movement kind of speaks for itself, doesn't it?

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. Anyone remember the second phase of Zavok in Lava Mountain 3? It took me almost 20 minutes of retrying that one boss; only to give up and Youtube it, because I couldn't figure out for the life of me what I was supposed to do. When I found out you have to bounce on those blocks, I was livid. At no point in the game (IIRC) did you ever bounce on blocks to kill anything. How anyone was supposed to figure that out without seeking a guide is beyond me.

You could argue that since Zavok bounced to knock down those same blocks in the previous phase, that was the hint. But all of the bosses do several things that neither the player nor Sonic can replicate. So how the bleep was I to know that this time, that one indiscriminate boss attack is something I'd have to learn for the next fight?

CNZ barrel indeed.

 

This game might have the worst Super Guide type feature I've ever seen. I'm on a flying level right now and I accidentally hit the wing capsule, whereupon I was warped to the next checkpoint past the red ring I was trying to get without so much as a chance to cancel it or kill myself. I should not have to worry about accidentally triggering level skips because I have to kill Sonic to retry for a collectible.

EDIT: Sky Road Zone 4 bullshit, now compiled, formatted, and spellchecked because I didn't initially realize it would be this awful.

1. Now I'm in a vertical climb level where progressing turns any ground beneath the camera into a death pit (so, working off of autoscrolling logic for some reason), and to top it off, using the Rhythm wisp got me killed because music-note Sonic fell into the death pit after he hopped a few music notes for some reason (and yes, I was hitting jump).
2. And then I get hit by ghosts as Sonic is running off-screen to transition to the next area. Sure, why not.
3. And now a railing Sonic uses to reposition himself doesn't have any indicator of how long it'll last before it breaks and sends Sonic hurtling toward his doom.
4. Killed myself trying to get to a narrow path on a breakaway rail only for that path to actually just lead to a 1-up. Also I started the next 2D section with Sonic hidden behind the Omochao icon. This level is just giving me so much to nitpick.
5. The rhythm wisp is now getting caught up against the ceiling. Bravo.
6. Even the level boss has to have some bullshit. I lost track of Sonic in a laser clusterfuck so he got killed, and I can't figure out this final hit for the red guy. Once I've got him teetering on an edge, trying to kick just makes him put up a block, and doing a homing attack HURTS ME. WHAT IS HAPPENING.
7. Oh. Okay. It just had to lock-on MORE. To KNOCK HIM BACK. WHEN THE PRINCIPLE WAY TO KNOCK THINGS BACK IN THIS GAME IS THE KICK. THAT'S FINE. THAT'S NOT STUPID. THIS GAME ISN'T BULLSHIT AT ALL NO SIR. />

Sorry, but... God damn, fuck this level in particular. I'll save anything else for my next list.

 

I'm pretty sure the only reason I figured that one out was from mucking about after dying the first time, trying to figure out what the trick was. Having said that, I think the limit of my patience the first time around was (coincidentally, considering iGamr's post :v: ) Sky Road 4's boss. The fact that you have to wait for the homing attack to lock on beyond when the reticule itself is full is just...


It's a shame. I honestly feel like, beneath all of this crap, there's a pretty solid foundation here. One that needs a lot of work, sure, but it's there.

 

Sky Road 4s boss is bullshit. That mechanic you never used in the game, especially not for that purpose, is now mandatory. But it gets worse when you reach the final boss of New Super Mario Bros. 2 Lava Mountain. [Inspoiler]You have to bounce on red blocks to hit Zavok on the head.[/iSpoiler]

 

Seriously. Not to pile on, but... I'm going to pile on, because it's the stupidest thing. I'm pretty sure no other boss encounter lets the attack charge more than 3 levels, and if you don't charge it up enough this one time, it HURTS YOU, which only teaches you that it's the wrong move. Not to mention the most important thing, which I can't stress enough:

This final hit is supposed to KNOCK HIM BACK. WHICH IS THE ENTIRE POINT OF THE KICK. And while the enemy is in his TEMPORARY vulnerable state, the game wants you to STAND AROUND WAITING FOR YOUR HOMING ATTACK TO CHARGE FOR AN ABNORMALLY LONG TIME.

This isn't even failing to teach the player. This is directly contradicting what you've taught them and spitting in their face as they struggle to figure out what backwards-ass bullshit method you implemented for beating the boss at the end of an already annoying level, toward the end of an increasingly annoying game. I've already had my fair share of gripes about the game, but this level. This fucking level. This level ENCOMPASSES the worst parts of Lost World. The absolute failure to communicate to the player what the hell they're supposed to do until they've wasted whatever time and lives needed to figure it out themselves or give up and look at a walkthrough. I know I'm dwelling on it, but it's horrible design, and I'm sure as hell not just gonna let it go by unnoticed.

 

I called it Super Sonic Galaxy for a reason.

 

That boss is actually where I gave up.

I was demolishing him and suddently we got to the end so I figured of course I have to knock him off the dragon.

I get him to the edge, hit him. He's teetering now, I try homing attack and I'm hit.

Ok, so it's the kick? No? At least I'm not hit. But what do I do?

To GameFAQs!

Charge the homing attack? Alright, full charge while he's teetering, I take a hit.

Try this about 20 or so more times replaying the level twice, in one of those attempts he dies but I follow somehow and it doesn't count.

Ok, fuck this.

 

It wasn't a full charge then if you took a hit. Did people really have that much trouble with the Sky Road 4 boss? I don't remember having much of an issue even with the original release 2 years ago, and in Lava mountain I just figured those blocks looked different and he was coming from below, so I tried bouncing and that was that. Seemed fairly simple. I didn't even know the second section of the climb (the wall jump part) even existed until looking up an ideal place to do the "20 wall jumps in a row" mission a couple of days ago.

 

I also had trouble with that boss. The problem is a fully charged homing attack in this boss isn't possible to charge in mid air as it has to charge like 6 times to have a real effect. You have to just stand next to him while he's teetering until it charges, then go. It's like they forgot to make a tutorial for the game from this to the spindash hop to the parkour. If you still have trouble try closing in on him when he shoots the lightning bolts and push him into it. That way he would be stunned longer.

 

Yet they still freeze everything on screen to tell you useless shit every 4 seconds.

 

Speaking of which, how the fuck does rhythm wisp work? Am I supposed to just press jump mindlessly? Because if I do that in silent forest (act where there's this owl who projects light on you resulting in an instant death) I simply "dance" into a bottomless pit.

 

The way I understood it based on past boss battles (which other than one section with giant worms is the only other time the mechanic mattered) is that you can "charge" it 3 times. Like the reticle had 3 tiers, red, little brighter and pure white.

So the first boss needed 6 "hits" so you can finish him in 2 rotations.

I'm hearing now it goes further but it never locks on more than 3 times.