Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Pengi

    Pengi

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    That's not right at all. In Sonic Forces they use the word sekai, which has nothing to do with time.

    In Sonic Generations, the two Eggmans use the words mirai and kako when referring to each other.

    The inconsistency between the two games exists in English and Japanese.

    As for the human world/Sonic world thing, this is briefly touched upon in a Sonic Forces article by Yoshitaka Miura on Sonic Channel.

    何気なくプレイしていると気にも止めないかもしれませんが、ソニック含めキャラクターたちが住む世界は、現実の人間世界ではないので背景に英語などのいわゆる「文字」を使用していません。一部のギミックには数字は使いますが、背景には文字らしき単純な図形の羅列で、何か文字が書いてあるような雰囲気を出しています。

    Google Translated: You may not mind playing casually, but the world in which the characters live, including Sonic, is not a real human world, so we do not use so-called "characters" such as English in the background. Some gimmicks use numbers, but the background is a series of simple figures that look like letters, giving the impression that some letters are written.
     
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  2. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I've noticed that the giant snake "disappears" when Sonic is kicking it from inside in the Re-imagined mod.
     
  3. Dark Sonic

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    I did too actually, I think the camera must be broken there.
     
  4. MH MD

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    Not sure if warrants a new thread or not, but anyway, Forces related!

    https://www.gematsu.com/2020/06/playstation-plus-free-games-for-july-2020-announced

    Sony is celebrating 10 years of ps plus, and they are sharing some stats, what's really interesting is...
    That's right folks, Forces is top 5 at the most redeemed games in the service! out of hundreds of games offered throughout the years! or what they claims "over 1000 games globally"

    Always heard that forces was more successful than Mania actually, contrary to popular beliefs here, it's really popular with the kids from what i witnessed ,it's easy and short enough that they can play it and have fun.

    Sonic Movie was released one month prior to Forces offering through ps plus, so that tells us that the movie indeed helped the brand and games ,hope the momentum continues, with better games in the future!
     
  5. Mana

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    I don't know man.

    1. Games aimed at children, let alone one as popular as Sonic are rarely offered with PlayStation Plus. So it may have gotten more attention than usual from this.

    2. Many people may have downloaded the game, for free, who'd have never paid for it just to see if it was as bad as people say.

    3. Sonic Mania/Plus has never been offered as a free PlayStation Plus game so we shouldn't compare the two here so closely here with that outlier.

    4. They were very proud to give us a clear number for Mania "a million sold!" while they spent the same amount of time hiding Forces true numbers behind ambiguity. We just know it did well.

    5. Mania got post game DLC, a physical rerelease, and animated shorts. Forces has slowly become another old shame for SEGA.

    I don't know man. Missing a lot of outlying factors.
     
  6. MH MD

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    Sonic Mania was offered actually last year, so i say in this category forces won without doubt.

    Also i remember people who follow sales and such said that forces indeed sold more than mania and more people owning it on playstation 4, before the ps plus offering even
     
  7. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    I am very skeptical about Forces beeing more successful than Mania, because Sega sucked Mania to the last drop, while Forces was simply forgotten.
    Also, Iizuka said this:

    "There may be some impressions that Sonic Mania was aimed for people who knew of the Genesis-era games simply because it is a 2D game that feels like the past, but in actuality, people from a very broad age range are playing it.

    Especially outside Japan, the highest user demographics of digital downloads came from grade schoolers."
     
  8. Beltway

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    Did any of these people who have claimed Forces indeed outsold Mania ever offer any actual receipts? (And are these receipts are from reputable sources, and not the likes of, say, VGChartz?)

    Putting aside Sega's own reports (or lack thereof) on how Mania (Plus) and Forces performed:
    The Nintendo Switch eShop sales charts (weekly, monthly, yearly) exist.
    Nintendo's lists of the best-selling Switch games of 2017 (physical and digital) exist.
    The monthly PlayStation Store charts exist.
    Numerous weekly / monthly physical sales charts from select countries around the world exist. NPD [US], Famitsu [JP], Media Sales Create [JP], chart-track.co.uk [UK], UKIE [UK], GfK [DE], IGEA [AU/NZ], and swiss.charts [CH] among others. Some of these sites I'm mentioning are no longer available, but their charts have been mirrored at certain sites like ResetERA and some of them have been saved in the Wayback Machine.

    Myself and others have reported on them in each of the games' respective threads if anyone wants to look back and parse through them with the search tool. I've personally even added more than a few of them to the Retro wiki.

    I'm really puzzled that this is still up for debate three years on. The results speak for themselves for anyone that actually wants to do their research and not reach for the gaming industry equivalent of this:

     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  9. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Yeah, anyone claiming Forces has done better numbers than Mania is deluding themselves. I remember the chart tracking that was done here and while Forces disappeared fairly quickly, Mania stuck around for months. Gonna need something a bit more solid than people snagging Forces while it was free - I know for a fact I didn't get it at anywhere near full price.
     
  10. TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

    TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

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    Aaron Webber said on his personal Twitter a while ago that Forces did well commercially. I'm trying to find the tweet in which he said it. I highly doubt it did as well as Mania, but it'd be kind of a breach of ethics for Sega to lie about the game's performance if you ask me.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2020
  11. MH MD

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    It's not like i prefer Forces over Mania or anything, the opposite obviously, just stating what i knew cause i was also surprised.

    Thing is, even with all evidences i don't think we had concrete numbers in a lot of them, some charts are relatives and don't tell the whole story, something can be number 1 in a dead month and something else can be like number 20 in holiday season and sell better than the previous game that was number 1, lets not forget that mania released in summer with not a lot of competing games while forces released in holiday season with the likes of super mario odyssey and fifa etc, counting eshop sales of 2017 for example also ignore the fact that Forces will only have 1 month worth of sales while Mania have like 4 months, so that can also skew things.

    Also there is the fact that forces had a mixed critic presence, so you can see why SEGA would rather not talk a lot about it while they praise Mania etc., it would not be wise to develop expansion for Forces, which also likely costs more than Mania Plus and take more effort -not to downplay the effort spent on Mania of course! but it's also a fact that it had a very small team-

    The closest thing i can present as a receipt is this, for PS4
    https://gamstat.com/games/Sonic_Forces/
    https://gamstat.com/games/Sonic_Mania/

    This site , as it states, does not count sales, but it count the number of people who had played the game and at least got the first trophy, prior to PS plus offerings for both games, you can see that Mania had peak 740k players while Forces had peak 1.18M players, while of course this site doesn't tell the whole story and they state it themselves -games can be shared with multiple accounts etc.- , you can see still that Forces still had more players, and both games likely have the same circumstances, if anything Mania had the advantage of both SKU -original and plus- and releasing earlier with great word of mouth and critical response.

    Anyway i am not here to stir shit or anything, just stating what i knew
     
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  12. Sid Starkiller

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    You have to take into account sales expectations. A game that the company expects to sell 50k units that actually sells 150k is successful, and a game they expect to sell 10mil units that only sells 1.5mil is a flop. Their relative sales figures are completely irrelevant.
     
  13. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Maybe this?

    But one thing is Forces doing well, another thing is Forces doing better than Mania.
     
  14. Dark Sonic

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    Ok I have a technical question related to the PC version. I've beat the final level like, 4 times now, after each time the game crashed and it hasn't yet saved. Twice the game crashed right after the fight, disabling a few mods fixed that, but then the game just crashed after the final cutscene post credits. Some mods were still on but none of them should conflict with anything important (improved Modern Sonic model, Metal Sonic Avatar parts which work just fine in every other avatar cutscene). Anyone have a solution to this? The only other thing I can think of is the Classic Sonic improvement mod that required patching the exe, but again, hasn't caused any problems outside of this one.

    Also it's a damn shame the cutscenes are pre-rendered save for the Avatar scenes, because seeing better Classic and Modern Sonic models alongside a Metal Sonic avatar actually looks pretty awesome in the non pre-rendered cutscenes.
     
  15. Mana

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    Brodie why would people download a game they already own for free? I promise you anyone who got Forces on Plus had no intentions of getting the game anyways and wanted to make fun of it.

    Mania outsold Forces it's okay and even a good thing imo.
     
  16. SystemsReady

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    "did well commercially" doesn't necessarily mean it sold gangbusters, an ambiguous phrase like that could also mean "made its money back", and given how low-budget and bare the game itself looks...

    Sega bragged about how great Mania is and gave it a re-release with new content, even putting out physical copies for it like they didn't expect people to want that when the game first came out. Forces stopped being A Thing Sega wanted people to know about shortly after it came out - and the mobile title with the same name is the one actually getting new stuff. The way Sega is carrying itself with regards to these games hints at how well each of them did - though like the statement above, it could be an indication of massively unexpected success vs fine but expected success.
     
  17. TheOneAndOnlyJoebro64

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    Nah, he was replying to a fan asking if a 4chan AMA was real or not. He said something across the lines of "the first thing that tells you it's fake is that it says Forces was unsuccessful :)"
     
  18. Mana

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    I'll take some fault here. I knew how bad Forces would be and still bought it day one. One of those sales that made it a success is on me.

    Well 3 because I got the Switch, PS4 and PC versions but I did the same for Mania as well!
     
  19. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    I imagine the reason for you buying all three copies of Forces can be explained by your profile pic. ;)
     
  20. Shaddy the guy

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    To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to buy 3 copies of Sonic Forces. The writing is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the jokes will go over a typical viewer's head. There's also Shadow's nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterisation - his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they're not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike Sonic Forces truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn't appreciate, for instance, the humour in Infinite's existencial catchphrase "I am not weak! I'm... I'm not. I'm not weak! I AM NOT WEEEEAAAAAAK! URRRAAAAAAAAAAAGH!," which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev's Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I'm smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Morio Kishimoto's genius unfolds itself on their Nintendo™ Switch™ game consoles. What fools... how I pity them. And yes by the way, I DO have an Infinite tattoo. And no, you cannot see it. It's for the ladies' eyes only- And even they have to demonstrate that they're within 5 IQ points of my own (preferably lower) beforehand.