Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Stimil Rc.

    Stimil Rc.

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    I feel like I'm the only person that didn't have a problem with the lengths of stages in LW3DS. I'm sometimes surprised to see just how long it took me to complete a stage. It might have something to do with how the level designs didn't feel repetitive. They felt long, but unlike Heroes and Shadow, I don't recall many bits of level design being reused to pad the game out (though, like those games, combat was used, but that could be bypassed or shortened a lot of the time) and it wasn't mandatory to replay any of them unless you're going for red rings or playing Hard Mode.

    On the subject of Classic Sonic's physics and level designs, I'm not very bothered since Mania exists and will probably get a sequel if Sega's smart. What I'm more concerned about is the future of Modern Sonic if what we've seen so far in Forces is an indicator of what the rest of his stages are going to be like. There's no consensus on what makes a good Sonic game and I don't see a repeat of Mania happening with any of the other play styles, least of all any of the 3D ones.

    Late edit: Addressed distracting grammatical errors.
     
  2. Epicsuperleader

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    I honestly think that classic sonic physics are just very slighty altered modern sonic physic, the reason its so noticeable how bad the classic sonic physics are is because you don't have a boost.
     
  3. 1stKirbyever

    1stKirbyever

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    That was the case in Sonic Generations which is why even the physics felt a bit wonky there. I feel like the problem isn't just Classic Sonic as if you look at all current gameplay videos, Modern Sonic and the Avatar have the same exact issues in 2D-sections of losing momentum outside of either boosting or hitting a dash panel.

    I wouldn't be surprised if the issue was caused by some speed cap that's poorly coded or handled considering that in all styles of gameplay. But who knows though.
     
  4. Someone could explain it better for me, but isn't it due to the Generations engine mainly being built around boost based stuff, so it can't replicate Classic momentum easily?

    Seems odd that they didn't build a more faithful classic engine seeing as they had 4 years to do so
     
  5. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    My understanding of engines is rudimentary at an absolute best, so I don't really know how much things can be changed. The engine they're using is clearly very similar to Unleashed's - things haven't seen much change since then, not even in Lost World. Classic Sonic is basically just a character mod with different variable, so of course has going to be very similar to Modern Sonic. I think that Sonic Team is just pretty inept... The games that they've been making since Unleashed don't seem to work on any consistent at of physics or "rules" within each individual game yet alone between them; automation, scripting and arbitrary changes to the behaviour of the player character come in to effect all the time to make the levels play a certain way. SA1 used these things as a crutch for technological difficulties, but now they're a part of the design.
     
  6. TimmiT

    TimmiT

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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9nPtZFXZuk

    + - I love that this starts with Ohtani mashing the airhorn button.  
     
  7. Deef

    Deef

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    See, we question why no classic physics and all, but they're making decisions to put on performances like that.

    Just so out of touch.
     
  8. Beltway

    Beltway

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    The length of the levels wouldn't be so bad if the actual design of them following the first two zones didn't drop into absolute trash.

    A truckload of the 3D levels just fall into the most banal "task after task" puzzle / gameplay objectives, and they only get worse when they throw in gimmicks like the snowman from Frozen Factory Zone 3 or start forcing the Wisps in the absolute worst of ways.

    While the 3DS entering its twilight years/the introduction of the more powerful Switch and Dimps being busy with DBZ fighters is the main reason there's no Dimps-developed version of Forces, Lost World 3DS should be grounds for Dimps to not be allowed to make another Sonic game again (if Sonic 4 wasn't already).

    Who thought levels like this:





    ...was good (Sonic) game design?
     
  9. RikohZX

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    Arc System Works is making Dragon Ball FighterZ.
    Dimps is seemingly just working on a Sword Art Online game unless they've got something in the works, with likely more Dragon Ball related things on the side.
     
  10. TimmiT

    TimmiT

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    I imagine the people who handle stuff like concerts don't handle stuff like game design.

    That being said, it is a pretty good example of where Sonic Team's priorities seem to be with Sonic Forces anyway.
     
  11. Beltway

    Beltway

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    I was referring more towards Xenoverse 2, but I found out that was actually released last year (the Switch port that just recently came out notwithstanding). Point taken though.
     
  12. Cooljerk

    Cooljerk

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    Dimps created the Wii/PS2 version of Sonic Unleashed.
     
  13. Stimil Rc.

    Stimil Rc.

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    The same people who thought these:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xyf-v4sRxZI
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mEDVWWnqEpo
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9M-Gujnpffg

    would be fun.

    I'm not gonna pretend that I thought these stages weren't without glaring flaws and I can understand you not enjoying levels like these, but I don't think it's fair to act as if the entire game was like the garbage in the videos you posted. Shadow the Hedgehog and Sonic '06 this ain't.
     
  14. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    It was pretty bad though. It might have played fine but the levels were so long and poorly designed that it's one of the few Sonic games I've actually sold. BSing a stage with RCs and Super Sonic death abuses is not fun.
     
  15. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    All of those levels you've posted are horrible, particularly the first one. Sonic controls worse in Lost World 3DS than he has in any other game (although said control is also completely different to any other game as well). Lost World 3DS is unplayable trash. It's one of the worst Sonic games.
     
  16. Stimil Rc.

    Stimil Rc.

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    Agree to strongly disagree on all counts (Unless you're specifically referring to the homing attack, how you find the controls worse than in Heroes, Shadow, '06, or Lost World U is beyond me), but that's beside the point I was making: That the stages weren't all just a bunch of game changing nonsense and, even when the gameplay did change, it wasn't always as drastic as the stages in the videos Yeow posted.
    I never used the RCs and didn't unlock Super Sonic until after I'd beaten every stage in Hard Mode because I thought the Special Stages were unplayable at first. Turned out that they were just barely playable.
     
  17. Shaddy the guy

    Shaddy the guy

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    That's weird, I always heard the general consensus saying that Lost World 3DS had way better controls than the HD version.

    Not that I don't hate that game with a firey passion regardless.
     
  18. Tiberious

    Tiberious

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    Generations 3DS? What a joke.

    I installed that to my system about a week ago, and it was a shitshow from the beginning.

    Classic stages are pure copypasta, and you THINK you'd know how to get to stuff since you know the layout, but then it takes more than half a minute to hit the first yellow spring in Green Hill 1.

    My problems only got worse after that. I actually game overed in Green Hill 2 because of some retarded "Press Hold X to Not Die" horseshit (this is the 2nd stage in the game. WTF?), and then I managed to softlock in Casino Night 1 about 75% of the way through (the spot where there's the triangle bumper above a flipper that leads to a spin tunnel. You could pull the map up and I could show exactly where). Finally, they made the ridiculous choice to make you unlock the missions using those idiotic play coins, meaning you'll need at least 500 when your maximum carrying ability is 300, and you can only earn 10 per day.


    So damn glad it was just a freeShop download and nothing I'd actually paid money for, or I'd be furious.
     
  19. XCubed

    XCubed

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    This is why the current Sonic Team is dead to me. They didn't even try. Like, they can't even mimic basic Sonic 1 physics. If you can't do classic Sonic right, don't do it at all. The Mania Team needs to take over even though I know they are dying to do other projects.
     
  20. iirc this is misinformation, there was a Dimps level designer that helped with the day stages but it was still a Sonic Team product.