Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.
They helped with the level design but didn't make the whole thing like they did with the portable games
I know you guys think that because you see the term "Dimps" besides "Lead Level Design" on the credits, but no, this isn't wrong. Look at the credits and look up the names listed and you'll see Dimps staff all over the place. Like, for example, Toshiyuki Nagahara (producer), Hidehiro Bushisue (conversation programmer), Katsuya Kuramoto, Yohei Okai, Ryusuke Watanabe, Atsushi Nakano, Hiroki Horiguch, Ryosuke Ihara, Masatoshi Nakane, Takashi Miyahara (all programmers), Shintaro Washino, Naoki Matsuo (artists), etc.
An enormous amount of the credits for Sonic Unleashed Wii/PS2 are either Dimps, or Xeen, which is a contract company that Dimps regularly uses across all their products. Not to mention DIMPS lists the game under titles produced on their website.
Dimps absolutely created the Wii/PS2 version of Unleashed. As much as they "create" any other game.
Welp, never mind then!
I could have sworn there was an interview from before it released where someone from Sonic Team said they were assisting with level design, too.
There is Sega/Sonic Team staff listed too, yeah, but there is Sega/Sonic Team staff listed on every Sonic game. Dimps is a contract company, they are basically the equivalent of Ikegami's role in the creation of Donkey Kong.
The listings for games like Sonic Unleashed get hazy at times because assets were sometimes reused between both projects.
I should've been clearer, I meant Sonic Team said Dimps was assisting them with level design.
Nope. That's the misinformation. A few years ago I was looking at the credits for Unleashed Wii and only one person, Masaaki Yamagiwa the lead daytime level designer, is specifically mentioned as Dimps staff. However, all of the other day time level designers are from Dimps as well when you go to the effort of looking them up.
Fun fact - Yamagiwa was a planner in all the previous Dimps Sonic games, and Unleashed Wii was his last Sonic game. According to Moby Games, he later went on to work as a Producer on Bloodborne. It could be someone else with the same name, but I doubt it.
EDIT: Honestly did not realise that this had been covered so much already. Whoops lol.
Anyway, Forces soundtrack so far is duff. I like Casino Forest a lot and think it would work great in an 16 bit game. But using that retro sound doesn't work at all with Forces visuals style at all. Why didn't they go Generations-style and give Classic Sonic electronic pop with the occasional MD synth if they wanted something retro? That worked really well.
Also this remix is really awesome
Here's a good read, check it out
Whoa, that's interesting about Dimps actually making all of UnWiished. Thanks for shedding light on this guys, makes UnWiished a more interesting product.
...yeah no. I don't really see how those really help your argument. They're probably fun in the sense that probably anybody out there could enjoy them, but they don't scream "good (Sonic) game design", not by a longshot.
The 3D first and third levels you picked are full of do-or-die moments of grinding, parkour, or rocket riding over bottomless pits. When there is actual ground to run/walk for most of it is either split between Heroes-style "destroy X amount of enemies to continue" or autorunning sequences. The third level does actually have something going on with the dragons breathing fire and flat platforms to but that only appears for the last third of the level. They're levels primarily defined by entirely one gimmick in the worst of ways. The 2D second level is the best of the bunch that's not saying much, it's still chock full of the stock Dimps Sonic game design mentality of automated sequences (speed boosters, HA chains, springs, hoops, grinding rails) and using also enemies as progression gates. (If you also read my post, I actually said the game really dropped the ball in quality after the first two zones of the game. Windy Hill and Desert Ruins have some levels in them that while I wouldn't call great, were what I would consider adequate...but that's beside the point.)
If not being as bad as Shadow and Sonic 2006 is the barometer for good Sonic gameplay then I'll be blunt, that's a pretty damn low bar to clear. Lost World 3DS is "playable" (a popular term of defense I've seen a lot used for Sonic games) but that doesn't save it from being among the worst Sonic games out there.
That was actually a pretty terrible read, holey moley the English gave me a headache. I'm guessing either the writer is very young, or English is their 2nd language.
Either way, it's absolutely important to keep in mind that actually playing, and watching, are two different experiences. For example, that new casino level could actually be a pretty fun level even with the Modern Sonic engine.
I'm not interested in debating "good", "bad", or "fun". I know that we're not going to see eye to eye on that. Trying to tell eachother how to feel is a waste of time.
The only argument I made was against the suggestion that the majority of the game was like the videos you posted. My comment about Shadow and '06 was in reference to how those games frequently had huge shifts in gameplay, not overall quality.
If I made a mistake in my interpretation of the post I originally responded to, then I apologize. I also apologize for not making my points more clear.
Edit: Also, for the record: LW3DS is simultaneously one of my favorite and least favorite Sonic games for a variety of reasons. I've never been so torn on a Sonic game before.
Not sure if this has been posted, but someone made a mod of Mania Green Hill to match Forces' Green Hill Zone.
In case anyone wanted a good comparison of the difference in level design, this is a good start.
Now I'm curious to see if one of Mania's 2D stages could be accurately modded into Generations or something similar to see if the reverse is possible!
It's not quite any of the combinations you described, but someone's messing with Forces GHZ in Generations.
Very amusing mod. I wouldn't use this to say if modern gameplay design is "good" or "bad" as the boost gameplay is different than our classic gameplay. For example, I had a ton of fun in Sonic Generations. On top of that, the new Green Hill Zone in Forces may be an introduction level, hence more simple level design. The background song though... I think I'm starting to really hate it.
There's a mod that enables the Insta Shield and Drop Dash at the same time? I need to find this. Hopefully somebody's managed to extend the range of the Insta Shield.
That level design, though... It's amazing how a change in aesthetic can make it look even less complex. At the same time, has the entirety of Classic Green Hill been shown off yet? I don't doubt that there's not much left to see, but there were few branching paths that weren't shown off.
This is a poor excuse for bad level design. Every Sonic game prior has thrown way more at us in the first level without it causing the player to feel brain-dead. Hell, SA2 started us on a mechanic that wasn't the natural form of traversing levels in the game. Saying, "Well it's the first level, so we can't do XY&Z," is absolutely bonkers to me.
I mean Green Hill has been the first level multiple times and it's been more complex than this.
Green Hill Zone in Sonic 1 was better than this
With regard to the boost series, this isn't really true. The VERY first boost level, ever, was this:
And the Wii version of said game actually took quite a while before the levels became interesting and complex. Even Sonic Colors begins with a pretty straight forward and vapid first level.
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