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Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Brainulator

    Brainulator

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    I'm sorry if I'm not saying anything new, but Dark Sonic and I brought up those layouts as suggestions, and since flamewing has never discussed them, they're pretty much a no-go.
     
  2. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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  3. MotorRoach

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    To give some quick feedback... that Modern Sonic looks way too cheaply made. I'm well aware that they just took the S3 Special Stage sprites and just copy pasted the head for it in Knuckles in Sonic 2, but when you already have Sonic in the game (in a way at least), it just feels like it clashes really badly. Either edit it to fit into the spriting style, or just make a new head for him anyway. The Tikal sprite is... there is no sugarcoating it, she's literally orange Knuckles in your sprite. I'm well aware of her design being an echidna as well, but given E-122-Psi already made a really decent Tikal sprite that doesn't looks like a Knuckles recolor, the best course of action to take is to try making her Special Stage sprites to stand out from Knuckles as well.

    The Boom Sonic looks... hardly different from the original sprite, and Silver looks very pillow shaded and rough, not to mention his design looks inaccurate to his models. Metal Knuckles looks half-okay, even though his head looks too much like Knuckles, instead of looking anyhow robotic or metallic, and his hands are way too overly simple. I heavily endorse you search for reference on these characters when spriting them.
     
  4. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    Thanks for the advice I'm not going to argue because of critics because those are for me to do my best and get better at it I'll see how will I update It.:v:/>
     
  5. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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  6. Brainulator

    Brainulator

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    Do you mind making Boom Sonic's quills longer?
     
  7. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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  8. nineko

    nineko

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    Flamewing, you know I usually say you're awesome and I like everything you do, but going through a loop in EHZ with speed shoes should already give you the answer you are looking for, the camera goes all over the place, plus it moves in a confusing way when I jump. So no, I don't think it's a good camera.

    This doesn't make it for me, either. I just can't like a camera which moves with a mind of its own.

    I know there are people who like the Sonic CD camera and things like that, so if you want to implement it, please go for it, but please also keep it toggleable. Maybe you can even offer both the algorithms, yours and DD's, like "Camera Style: [original | pure SCD | Flamewing mode | DigitalDuck mode]".

    Just my opinion.
     
  9. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    That is true, though. The Sonic CD camera is interesting and definitely gives more vision so you can see hazards coming at high speeds, but can easily jitter around. It literally only seems to have been invented to facilitate warping.

    Let's also note how Sonic CD is slower-paced than the other Genesis titles.
     
  10. flamewing

    flamewing

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    It seems you missed my second version. And the reason I am asking you, in particular, is because I know you hate the SCD camera: if I can make a version you like, then I will know I managed to salvage the thing :v:
     
  11. rata

    rata

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    Trying to be useful somehow.
    Actually, while flame's version does get confusing during high speed loops, DD's version doesn't. I would go for it.

    Is it possible to add a rule to the camera algorithm to calm down when you're in loops and walls? Because the extra view of flame's is very appreciated, the only bad thing of it occurs on loops and in the very moment you start running on walls. If that can get fixedd, it would be really awesome.

    EDIT AFTER FLAME's POST: okay, that version does fix the loop thing, one step closer to perfection. If the walls can get smoothed, then you have it.
     
  12. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    [​IMG]
     
  13. nineko

    nineko

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    This is what happens when I'm trying to test things, and my mother comes into my room to tell me that lunch is ready. I very rarely overlook things because my OCD leads me to notice everything, but being interrupted by third parties while I do things is really bad on my nerves. Sorry for not seeing that before.

    That said, it's better, but it still has a fair share of problems, in particular when you jump: it still tends to reset to a neutral position, so if you jump while you run, it constantly switches between looking ahead and reverting to a central position. This effect is magnified if you jump inside a loop, and I'm surprised that you, as a speedrunner, didn't try that. Also, quarter ramps are still affected by unwanted camera movements; the biggest offender, in this case, can be achieved by spin dashing right before a quarter ramp. While such a combination of factors can be problematic even with the regular camera, it gets worse here.

    I'm sorry, I doubt even you can create a nonstandard camera which is better than the original one.
     
  14. flamewing

    flamewing

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    AngelKOR: These will do for the attempt to fit them all into a restricted number of colors; but many of them will be done by the people doing the sprite sheets for me, and I don't have them now because they didn't do it yet. Such as: E-122-Psi (Big, Tikal — and he has a classic Amy, I just didn't include it in the sheet because I forgot), Lone_Devil (Tails Doll, Mecha Knuckles), Aquaslash (Sonia, Silver, Blaze). So I will defer to them when it comes to criticizing art; and since they are great pixel artists, I will also defer to Dolphman, Drex, MotorRoach, Neo, rata, Xeric, and probably a few others I forgot.
     
  15. Brainulator

    Brainulator

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    Once Sonic Mania is out, do you suppose the Drop Dash and other new abilities will be added? :v:
     
  16. flamewing

    flamewing

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    I have considered the drop dash, yes. I am also considering changing Sonic's control scheme so that he can use the various shield dashes without needing to have the shields: for example, insta-shield would use C (even as super/hyper/invincible), B+up would be a double jump (lightning shield allowing a triple shield), B+down woud be a ground pound (plus bounce with bubble shield) and B+left/right would be a dash on that direction (or homing attack with gold shield). [cue wave of whining]
     
  17. Crappy Blue

    Crappy Blue

    Knuckles' Chaotix is a perfect game with no flaws Member
    Not to knock that down as a concept just because it's different (I think it'd be a fun ability scheme to play around with), but I worry about what it'd do for Classic Heroes as a multiplayer game. I mean, multiplayer in a non-splitscreen Sonic setting isn't ideal anyway, but if Sonic could air dash at will whenever, Tails and Knuckles players would have a hard time keeping up, and would have even less screentime than usual if they're not player 1. Though, I guess the Drop Dash could have a bit of that effect, too. And I guess Charmy already presents that issue, but at least Vector can sort of keep up.

    Mostly tossing this out there because I value Classic Heroes as a Sonic game I can actually enjoy playing with friends. The extra characters + the ability to swap characters on the fly makes the whole thing more engaging and silly, so it's easier to ignore the fundamental faults of the "tag-along" multiplayer style.
     
  18. flamewing

    flamewing

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    For starters, I never said jump dash at will — I said without the need for a shield. To see the difference, see Charmy vs Vector.

    Second, Sonic can have a much harder time keeping up with Tails and Knuckles than the other way around, except when you are just running forward — in which case they can keep up fine if Sonic is player 1. Another good reason for this would be speedrunning: speedrunners tend to not use Sonic in SCH (except for Super Sonic) because Tails and Knuckles can move around better and recover better from errors.

    But on second thought, perhaps having insta-shield in B button (attack) and dashes in C button (movement) would work better.
     
  19. Crappy Blue

    Crappy Blue

    Knuckles' Chaotix is a perfect game with no flaws Member
    Sorry, I could've phrased that better; I wasn't comparing him to Charmy's infinite flight, I just meant being able to air dash as a part of his default abilities.

    And... fair enough, I guess? I didn't realize this game had a speedrunning community.
     
  20. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    Just use Chaotix mode or whatever and no one has to keep up with anyone