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Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    God no, that camera is wonky and can be weird with AI characters.

    But wait, what about the Flame Shield? What will that do for Sonic?
     
  2. JojHeywood

    JojHeywood

    Arbitrary. Member
    chaotix mode best mode.

    you're not supposed to use it with AI. Anyone doing so is doing the mode a disservice.
     
  3. LordOfSquad

    LordOfSquad

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    Yeah, Chaotix mode is fucking unreal when you're playing with actual people. Nobody has to struggle to stay on the screen, all sorts of wacky rubber band shit happens, it's a ton of fun. Some of the best co-op gameplay ever, anywhere.
     
  4. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    Since that's the regular power up the gold shield gives, wouldn't it be worth of a C Button assignment?
     
  5. Brainulator

    Brainulator

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    Good point, I didn't of that.
     
  6. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    I find cool that sonic could have the drop dash and the shield's abilities... But It will kill the point of the shields. Also... Which control scheme for modern sonic will you use...Advance, rush, adventure or modern?
     
  7. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Considering I never played any of these... I have no idea? (I only ever played the SMS and MD ones).
     
  8. As someone who's been following the project for a while, I think the Drop Dash would be an EXCELLENT addition to Sonic's moveset. It's a really cool gameplay mechanic that keeps the speed going (especially for breakables) and seems well thought out. I also don't mind Sonic being able to outrun other characters, he's Sonic! Chaotix mode, as stated before, keeps people together and has the bonus effect of hilarious rubberbanding + adorably clumsy Co-Op situations.

    Insofar as visual feedback, it was quite a few pages ago but I really love the palette compromise on the character sprites! Some actually end up looking better (I think Toon Link looks a hell of a lot better with that shade of green) and I actually like that purple-blueish hue on the metal stuff, it just tickles me in the right way and gives the metal a soft, cartoony feature but keeps it looking sleek. I'm actually legitimately impressed at how it's come together like that and I definitely understand the desire to keep the game on the Genesis, working around technical limitations like that is probably a really fun hurdle and challenge.

    One thing I'm wondering about this hack is if you'll be able to restore Knuckles's old jump, the lower, more awful one. Pardon me if this has been asked before or if I am wrong but Knuckles seems to jump as high as Sonic, and I'm curious as to whether or not this will change. Since I see you plan on bringing in Chaotix Knuckles, perhaps his jump could be the higher one and Genesis Knuckles could have the stubby jump I know and love? I know I'm probably one of very few that wants Knuckles to have his lower jump back but that was always one of my favorite distinctions between him and Sonic, and it changed up the dynamics of pretty much every boss.

    Regardless the work here is incredible and I look forward to seeing (and hearing) more! The playable roster looks gigantic and I definitely can't wait to use the duo of Mario and Sonic to simulate a crossover I really want to see.
     
  9. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    From revision 0.06:

    "Knuckles jumping ability is no longer nerfed. The rationale is that the original S3&K nerf was most likely done to force the use of different paths for Knuckles in certain scenarios (while Knuckles' ability to break down some walls prevented Sonic/Tails from taking these paths)."

    Doubt it'll happen.
     
  10. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    It's indeed a little weird that Knuckles has a normal jump height...
     
  11. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    Oh... Ok I'll do my best to list their moveset.Sonic Advance:Insta shield, air dash, spindash, small roll to a slide attack if B pressed/backwards jump if a jump button pressed and tricksSonic Rush:Air dash, boost, homing attack, spindash, and tricksSonic adventure:(I have never played sonic adventure but I'll say from what I've seen on playthroughs)Spindash with the press of a button, light speed dash if spin dash fully charged, light speed attack if spin dash charged and homing attack (probably missing some others)Modern moveset:Boost, light speed attack, stomp,homing attack, slide and spin jumps but doesn't roll (also probably missing stuff).See if you can find playthroughs for info on how they work.
     
  12. Ah. I was under the intent that the Knuckles jump height was not just for Sonic routes but to make him feel different + make his boss fights more than just "Sonic with a glide." It forced me to rethink the final boss of Sonic 2 and devise a strategy for it on the fly which I did manage to do (no pixel perfect jumping required!) I just kind of miss it, the crappy jump felt distinctly "Knuckles" but I can live without it I guess. It would be cool as an option or something, I mean especially since we have Metal Knuckles and Chaotix Knuckles now going by the spritesheet. Maybe one of them could have it?
     
  13. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    I do see where you're coming from, but at the same time, there are sections where Knuckles's lower jump makes certain platforming sections less straight-forward and/or require wall-climbing/gliding, which couuld invoke super/hyper transformation against your will.

    I think it could also be a symbol of Knuckles's extra bulk and weight, but shouldn't Tails have a higher jump height by this logic, or do his tails weigh him down?
     
  14. Ugh.
    Knuckles jump height in Sonic 3 and Knuckles was a design choice so he couldn't access areas that Sonic (and Tails) could. There is nothing more to it than that. Stop trying to find meaning in needless things that have already been explained for over 2 decades.
     
  15. Jeffery Mewtamer

    Jeffery Mewtamer

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    Honestly, the only time I ever noticed Knuckles lower jump was in cases where Sonic Team was less than subtle about Knuckle's jump being used to block Sonic's path. Then again, with gliding and climbing, Knuckles still has more aerial and vertical maneuverability than Sonic.

    Also, even if Knuckles is heavier, given that raw physical strength is what sets Knuckles apart on Team Sonic, some of that extra weight is likely in the form of stronger jump muscles(and likewise, the idea Tails should have a higher jump due to less weight could be counterbalanced by weaker jumping muscles(Given that Tails never actually runs, but instead skims the ground propelled by his tails, his legs might be as weak as they look) Besides, what use would Tails have for a higher jump given he can fly and just skip over most platforming sections entirely?
     
  16. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    That's the thing. The point is that I personally agree with Knuckles having a normal jump height. In addition, what advantage is there to a lower jump height beyond balancing out another mechanic that doesn't exist in this game?
     
  17. EDIT: Eh, fair enough. My question got answered anyways so it's all good. It's not important enough to warrant a substantial discussion.

    Regardless I did complete a playthrough in Co-Op Chaotix mode over netplay with a friend and I must say it's truly incredible! It's probably the best feature added to the game when looking at it from a multiplayer standpoint, made the game really fun. The only real "flaw" we could come up with is that when idling in certain areas, the AI takes over Player 2, and this can kind of screw things up in specific sections in Labyrinth where you have to wait and also during player respawn briefly, but it was a very minor hitch. There's actually a lot of 2 player specific zips you can do with the Tension mechanic that Chaotix mode introduces, makes me really wonder what a Chaotix mode TAS would look like....
     
  18. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    Now that I think about it, is the drop dash going to replace the insta-shield? Because from what I've heard from people talking about the gameplay, the drop dash is activated by pressing and holding the jump button until he touches the ground. So is it going to replace it or is it going to be like B button for drop dash and C button for insta-shield or vice versa?
     
  19. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Or do the logical thing and do down+C since it's basically a Spindash anyway.
     
  20. flamewing

    flamewing

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    With the drop dash in mind, I was also thinking of making Sonic's insta-shield/shield abilities all trigger when you press and release a button on air; the drop dash would then be press and hold a button on air. This would have the advantage that you can decide the better moment for releasing a shield dash if you mistime a jump when you are near a ledge by choosing when you release the button.

    But I also like down+buttons, maybe allowing charging on the way down.