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Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    I really like the idea for the Buzz Bomber; I immediatelly thought of an animated variant with a progressive yellow band moving as if gearing up to shoot. I will try aniimating it later today. I also like the Motobug concept.

    Re: the GG crabmeat... it is kind of silly, to be honest.

    I actually already have some code for this, but it never worked correctly so I disabled it I will try to make it work again.

    Nice! With the new palette, they could use even more color.

    Hm. I m thinking of swapping to the new palette even before the make-your-team thing I coded; it will make a lot of things simpler, and better.

    I have been meaning to ask: what do you (and everyone else, for that matter) think of this version of the SCD camera?

    Edit: I updated the link with a slightly modified version.
     
  2. Brainulator

    Brainulator

    Regular garden-variety member Member
    Sorry, I forgot that Dark Sonic said that.

    I'm taking a break for who knows how long. Learn why on my profile page or the spoiler section.
    Spoilering this because I don't need to make the thread more off-topic than it needs to be, but...

    Let's face it: you complaining about how useless and excessive my posts are drags the thread down further since you clearly have no understanding of how as much as a friendlier approach as well as more patience can make this situation much cleaner and faster this can be, especially when you're dealing with an autistic teenager at an adult age. Not that autism shields criticism, but you do have to realize that it can impair my social patterns.
     
  3. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Too janky. Needs some smoothing, like this (ignore other changes, it's my experimentation ROM).
     
  4. flamewing

    flamewing

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    No, it does not.

    Your version suffers from a problem I am specifically trying to avoid: jankiness when doing platforming, particularly when changing directions at slow speeds. I admit that mine has some rather drastic camera movement when changing directions at high speeds, though. I would like to see your smoothing code; meanwhile, I changed one thing in my version which should make ground movement smoother.

    Back to art stuff: this is what I meant:
    [​IMG]
     
  5. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    That's a massive improvement; I'd be interested in seeing how you've done that too. Most of the remaining problems seem to come from sudden speed changes, which smoothing will help with. I'm doing two things to make it smoother:

    1. Camera offset is based on the average velocity in the last 16 frames, rather than the current velocity. If I were to code it properly, I'd use the table that already stores Sonic's position, find the difference between x-position now and x-position 16 frames ago, and divide that by sixteen. (I did it the lazy way in the built ROM because I was just knocking up a POC and have lots of spare RAM.)

    2. Camera offset can only change by at most one pixel per frame. This is what causes the weirdness with when you stop, but it stops the camera from jerking about too much otherwise.

    I think some combination of whatever magic it is you're doing in that latest version, along with using an average (maybe weighted average would be better? e.g. average over 16 frames * 0.75 + current * 0.25). Limiting the offset change would have to be done selectively, perhaps inversely proportional to the current velocity.


    I love dicking about with cameras. :v:
     
  6. rata

    rata

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    Trying to be useful somehow.
    [​IMG] [​IMG]


    My ideas for two of the repeated badniks of Sonic 1 part. You can't jump on buzzspiker and rolling onto caterburner is an almost sure hit.
     
  7. flamewing

    flamewing

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    The Caterburner certainly does fit with the overall Scrap Brain feeling; but it may end up making the level too damn hard, especially considering it is followed by Emerald Hill. The Buzzspiker idea is interesting, but it seems excessive for Marble and would seem derivative right next to Yadrin in Spring Yard. To be fair, I am looking more for graphical than behavioral changes.

    Anyway, I forgot I had promised this:
    [​IMG]
    (direct link)
    Those are all of the Special Stage sprites I have right now. Time now to try to make them fit comfortably into two palette lines :v:

    Edit:
    @DigitalDuck: for that version of the SCD camera, my code is (almost) exactly this:
    [68k];sub_D704:
    ScrollHoriz:
    move.w (a1),d4 ; get camera X pos
    tst.b (Teleport_flag).w
    bne.s .return ; if a teleport is in progress, return
    move.w x_pos(a0),d0
    sub.w d4,d0
    move.w x_vel(a0),d3
    sub.w d4,d0
    move.w inertia(a0),d3
    btst #1,status(a0)
    beq.s .gotspd
    move.w x_vel(a0),d3

    .gotspd:
    tst.w d3
    smi.b d2 ; Right-shifting negative numbers rounds up, instead of down...
    andi.w #31,d2 ; ... so let us prepare...
    add.w d2,d3 ; ... to round down on all cases instead
    asr.w #5,d3
    cmpi.w #-136,d3
    bge.s .chkhigh
    move.w #-136,d3
    bra.s .do_offset
    ; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    .chkhigh:
    cmpi.w #136,d3
    ble.s .do_offset
    move.w #136,d3

    .do_offset:
    add.w d3,d0
    subi.w #(320/2)-16,d0 ; is the player less than 144 pixels from the screen edge?
    blt.s .scroll_left ; if he is, scroll left
    subi.w #32,d0 ; is the player more than 159 pixels from the screen edge?
    bge.s .scroll_right ; if he is, scroll
    clr.w (a4) ; otherwise, don't scroll
    ; return_D742:
    .return:
    rts
    ; ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ; loc_D744:
    .scrollLeft:[/68k]
    This replaces the start of ScrollHoriz, so that camera does not delay horizontally at all when spindashing. As you can see, simplicity itself.
     
  8. MotorRoach

    MotorRoach

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    That Super Sonic sprite looked like it'd work perfectly for a Shadow head, so I gave it a shot at making a sprite for Shadow myself:

    [​IMG]

    While I was at it, I thought I'd give it a shot and make Super Sonic's sprites a little more upwards:

    [​IMG]

    Referenced after my own Super Sonic design:

    [​IMG]
     
  9. Ralbalboa

    Ralbalboa

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    YES! Much better!
     
  10. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Remember: all special stage sprites are stretched horizontally - 256x224 becomes 320x224 (about 25%)

    The Chaotix may come out a bit fat.
     
  11. Drex

    Drex

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    The chaotix already look fine in the most recent release
     
  12. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    They look fine at 90 degrees yes, but no they are a bit wide compared to Sonic

    Incidentally vanilla Sonic 2 doesn't do the best of jobs at this. It makes an effort and it's not something you'd normally notice, but

    [​IMG] -> [​IMG]

    [​IMG] -> [​IMG]

    for things to work, Sonic at 0 degrees whould be tall and thin, while Sonic at 90 degrees should be short and fat. Sonic Team got the height bit right

    [​IMG]

    but not the width.


    It's always clever to see this sort of thing - a lot of developers wouldn't have bothered to re-draw the sprites for 90 degrees.
     
  13. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    Hey flamewing, are you going to redo the super peelout as in sonic cd or leave it as it is? (I probably missed something but hey is worth asking)
    Also since you guys said about adding the sonic 1 and 2 2013 remake level layouts, you could also add effects from them.
    For example... the death egg earthquake after defeating it and the fade out before leaving the death egg. (just ideas... but I know it is hard to do but hey at least I tried)
     
  14. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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  15. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    And make it completely useless again? No, never going to happen.

    You mean the earthquake and fade-out that are there in the original S2?
     
  16. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    Skip to 4:14 it's like the hill top earthquake and the fade out is like knuckles's fade out when he defeats mecha sonic from sonic 3

    Well there is an earthquake in the original but it starts after getting to the hallway... I mean that a bit aftr defeating the death egg robot... (It starts a bit sooner)

    Another example of what I mean skip to 1:01:30yeah but a question do you really plan to add hidden palace?

     
  17. flamewing

    flamewing

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    So, the EXACT SAME earthquake and fadeout from the original S2. Seriously, look it up: they are both there, and they work the same way: the exact same code is used for DEZ quake and HTZ quake, and it starts as soon as you lose control after beating Egg Mecha. And the screen fades to white while you are in the corridor.
     
  18. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    Sorry, umm... I don't know what to say exept that the fadeout is a little longer in the ios remake, but hey is Modern Sonic going to work like in generations? (obviously nerfed because of genesis or going to work differently
     
  19. Drex

    Drex

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    Based on the video you posted, the fade out is only longer because the game is running slower than normal.
     
  20. AngelKOR

    AngelKOR

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    Updated your Special stage sheet a bitKnuckles and tails have their respective arm color, added modern sonic, classic amy and tikal

    sorry from the thing earlier it is unnecessary, but hey... we all make mistakes right? I've been seeing this topic for a long time (even though I wasn't a member yet) and had a lot of ideas but now they just seem to float away. The only productive thing I can do now is help with sprites in the process hope you guys forgive me.:v:/>