Sonic Classic Heroes

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by flamewing, Nov 2, 2010.

  1. Clownacy

    Clownacy

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    Saying this in the nicest way possible, speak for yourself. I've been more and more thrown off as the project distanced itself from being 'just S1+S2 with three characters', and I certainly would appreciate an optional build that, in my eyes, is better.
     
  2. flamewing

    flamewing

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    Sonic Classic Heroes; Sonic 2 Special Stage Editor; Sonic 3&K Heroes (on hold)
    Something like it; but maybe changing it even more. I have more details at the bottom of this post.

    Hm, I kind of like the sound of updating both to look more S3&K-like. To be fair, this would also mesh well with me wanting to implement S3&K-like act transitions, as well as attempting to make a zone transition scheme so that the end result is a long, continuous game (unless you die/enter a special stage). Anyways, more at the end of the post.

    I'd be very interested in seeing that when it is done :v:/>/>/>/>/>

    While I would prefer to keep badniks distinct, I do not object to this on principle. More at the bottom of the post.

    I do like the idea of higher difficulty on early S2 portion following S1:

    The changes could effect the S2 portion only if it follows from the S1 portion; that would give a smoother difficulty curve. On the other hand, the easier EHZ and CPZ can be tought of as a reward for the gauntlet of SBZ...

    Anyways: more details on what I am thinking of. I have been thinking about doing a graphic update of SCH for quite some time, but never really mentioned it; one of the things that prompted me to ask about it this time is that I came across Lapper's GHZ mockups (e.g., this, this and this). When asked, he did say I could salvage what he had, as he no longer had the source images.

    Another thing is Dolphman's sheets (as well as some others from DeviantArt); several things just look better than the stock ones.

    I am torn about the actual direction, to be honest. On one hand, I really like the idea of going S3&K style. On another hand, I really like the aesthetics of SCD. And on the third hand, I would prefer something that is recognizable as the original game, even if only for a single act (for the case of S3&K-style act transitions, with the backgrounds changing on each act); for example, I would be OK with replacing Buzzers and/or Buzz Bombers with SCD's Poh-Bee and Tonbo, even if keeping the behavior. But of course, I would prefer something more reminiscent of the original badniks and art.

    More concretely: S2 portion has unique badniks on each zone (and so do SCD and S3&K). S1 has Buzz Bombers and Crabmeats in GHZ and SYZ; Caterkillers in MZ and SBZ; and Bombs in SLZ and SBZ. To be fair, Orbinauts in LZ and SLZ are palette swaps with altered behavior, and nothing else — in S3&K, the appearance, behaviors and projectiles of the Orbinauts and Star Pointers were very different from each other.

    Throwing some ideas just to keep the ball rolling: I really like Moto, Balkiry v.2 and Valkiry here; Dolphman's flying Motobug idea here looks like a nice replacement for Motobug, even if it won't fly; these concepts would also give interesting sprites, if at all realizable; and so on.

    Finally: I don't even know where I am going with this post anymore, and I am tired. So to cap it off:

    [​IMG]
    (direct link)
    Tweaked the character yellow color, so Ray and the Super Sonics look better; tweaked some colors on item palette, recolored a few things (notably the Sol's fireball) and added animals based on Dolphman's sheet (but using S2/SCD colors).

    Edit:
    Hm, lots of posts as I was composing that behemot above.

    When have I ever built optional versions?

    That is in the works, yes; but there is a ton of physics and collision changes on the way, and I have to get the hack in a releasable state (it is not at present). I also want to add Team SegaSonic in the mix on the next update, and I have almost all graphics (need to check what is missing, but I think it is corkscrew sprites). And no worries, I have many more immediate goals I want to tackle before moving on to the more ambitious stuff that may end up never happening for a host of reasons.

    I thought of that, and decided it is unsatisfying; S1 already has loads of duplicate enemies in different zones.
     
  3. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    Caterkiller in the style of Sonic 3:

    [​IMG]

    oh wait.

    Honestly I don't think the badniks need changing, unless you want to reduce the duplicates in Sonic 1.
     
  4. Brainulator

    Brainulator

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    Sorry to repeat myself, but of the Badniks that have duplicates, only Buzz Bomber/Buzzer, Chopper/Masher, and Orbinaut seem to be/have duplicates. That said, the Orbinauts only repeat Unidasu and Gohla to fit the firey environment, Chopper could use the arcing the arcing pattern from SA2, and Buzzer could burn bridges like in the Sonic 2 prototypes.
     
  5. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    To be honest, I'd be in favour of unifying similar badniks amongst Sonic 1 and Sonic 2, only on the aesthetic side of course, and not their behaviours. Having two similar buzz bombers and two similar fishes seems somehow redundant.
     
  6. Sith

    Sith

    The molotov bitch Member
    That would save memory, but personally I would still prefer variations of an enemy instead of using identical sprites over both S1 and S2. It would reduce variety. Maybe it would be better to make the two versions more apart.
     
  7. rata

    rata

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    Zone transitions? Stop stealing ideas from my mind! :p I don't know if your hack already uses it (probably does), but Comper would be extremely handy for doing this.

    As for S1 badniks, then I think the way to refresh them would include a more agressive killing-machine look and not the silly look they have (example: the same blue ball as head of most of them and big eyes). If you really want to avoid iteration, we could get 'updated' versions of them as the game goes. For example, buzzbomber in green hill, using a refreshed sprite. When it appears on spring yard, it could have some upgrades on it, as if Eggman decide to improve them a bit after seeing how unsuccessful they were. So, maybe another cannon over here or even some spikes on the bottom section to armor it a bit more.
     
  8. Xeric

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    [​IMG]

    Don't know if you'd have much use for them, but I thought I'd throw these your way. You could always just slightly change the design of the duplicate badniks between zones. For instance, use the classic Crabmeat in GHZ then use the GG Crabmeat(half red, half blue) for SYZ etc.
     
  9. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    I hate to be the one that recommends ideas, as I have been the one that typically has shot down ideas for the sake of having obtainable goals, but I just had one minor thing. Could you make it so that the camera scrolls up a bit in the signpost/egg capsule areas? Sonic 1 does this sometimes and Sonic 3 and Knuckles does it (Sonic 2 does not), but I just think it looks more aesthetically pleasing, particularly when the characters are doing some kind of pose at the end. It's one thing when the characters run off screen, but the way it is now the tally blocks the characters doing their end of act pose and it causes things to look cluttered.

    That and as far as the signposts are concerned, isn't there any other neutral color that could be used besides tan? Like black maybe with a white outline along the character art? Or one of the darker shades of gray? I get that the tan color is the most neutral but it's so ugly.
     
  10. Black Squirrel

    Black Squirrel

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    You could do a Burrobot with yellow highlights instead of red in Scrap Brain Zone Act 3. That's how it appears in the original artwork, so it's almost legitimate (although you might have to do more than a simple recolour - the sprites right now are pretty crappy in yellow).
     
  11. Brainulator

    Brainulator

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    To be honest, I'm personally interested in what Dark Sonic said about porting the 2013 S1/S2 layouts, although Marble Zone's secrets would have to be significantly altered.
     
  12. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Uhhh was that an older post because that was not what I was talking about most recently.

    Although that would be kinda neat.
     
  13. Xeric

    Xeric

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    [​IMG]

    :v:
     
  14. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Yes that is 1000 times better. I hope to see something like that in the game... along with my camera suggestion. I guess Robotnik's sign should have that kinda gradient too, maybe a gray to black one?

    Also Flamewing I'm curious. Why the hate for the Sonic 2 sprites? I'm not forcing you or whatever I'm simply curious as to why you prefer Sonic 3 Sonic in Sonic 1/2 levels as opposed to Sonic 2 Sonic. I just find Sonic 3 Sonic to be kinda derpy I guess, besides the fact that Sonic 3's art style doesn't really work with Sonic 1/2's art style
     
  15. Brainulator

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    What camera suggestion, the Sonic CD camera? That would be nice so I don't run into as much crap.

    I honestly kind of think that there should be a character-neutral "thumbs-up" and "thumbs-down" post, although that would be less necessary than, say, a generic 1-Up monitor.

    As for the art style not fitting, we just spoke of how we wish to make the backgrounds S3K-quality.
     
  16. nineko

    nineko

    I am the Holy Cat Tech Member
    edit: added relevant quotes on top, since ironically my post is the first one on a new page. My annoyed rant is directed towards Brainulator of course. Dark Sonic is talking about an excellent idea, which he posted about less than 3 days ago, less than half a page ago:
    How you got approved for full membership is still a mystery to me. Posting useless stuff all the time is one thing, and not reading other people's post is another. I tried not to say this for weeks because I got into troubles in the past for similar reasons, but you're single-handedly making this topic almost unreadable, and I know I'm not the only one with this opinion. Please stop.

    Also the Sonic CD camera is a horrible thing which fortunately never made its way into any other main Sonic game, let's keep it dead like that.
     
  17. DigitalDuck

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    The Sonic CD camera is a great thing which unfortunately only got a half-assed implementation in Sonic CD and then was abandoned. Personally I like being able to see things before I run into them. :v:
     
  18. MainMemory

    MainMemory

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    What about the Sonic Advance 2 camera?
     
  19. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    ... I stand corrected. :v:
     
  20. Overlord

    Overlord

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    No, Nineko, you're fully right on this. Brainulator, for the love of christ maybe take a timeout for posting for a few days. You got through Trial because you didn't look like being half as annoying as you've seemingly turned out to be since then. Take a breath, stop posting mindless garbage, lest we have to put more drastic methods into play here.