don't click here

How you would have made a Sonic RPG

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The Pulse, Sep 26, 2009.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Ritz

    Ritz

    Subhedgehog Member
    4,062
    84
    28
    <!--quoteo(post=354875:date=Sep 26 2009, 08:58 AM:name=muteKi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (muteKi @ Sep 26 2009, 08:58 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=354875">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I will admit that those are some pretty level art bits there, but if you showed them to me out of this context I would not believe they have anything to do with Sonic at all. Ever.


    They really don't exude the sort of charm I'd come to expect from the games, especially not the older ones. They look good, but they lack that Sonic essence.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I totally agree, actually. I can appreciate them for what they are, but I wouldn't say they were the ideal. They're still more Sonic than just about anything we've got in the past 10 years save for Heroes, so I didn't bother getting hung up over it.

    <!--quoteo(post=354896:date=Sep 26 2009, 09:48 AM:name=Mercury)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mercury @ Sep 26 2009, 09:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=354896">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guarantee you if STI had made a SatAM RPG in the Genesis days, it would have been fantastic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnsn0_w6K9Q" target="_blank">You sure about this?</a>
     
  2. Mercury

    Mercury

    His Name Is Sonic Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=354902:date=Sep 26 2009, 06:22 PM:name=Ross-Irving)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ross-Irving @ Sep 26 2009, 06:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=354902">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->How is an Action RPG cheap? It's only cheap if there's no strategy, something myself and a few others have acknowledged, and something I am thinking hard about this very minute.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Fair enough - but even if a decent Sonic Action RPG were made, the question would remain: "What would a traditional Sonic RPG be like?" Though an Action RPG might be a fine way to go, I think it is a mistake to think that just because Sonic is fast, any RPG he's in absolutely has to be an Action one. There are other ways to pick up the pace without sacrificing turns.
    <!--quoteo(post=354902:date=Sep 26 2009, 06:22 PM:name=Ross-Irving)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ross-Irving @ Sep 26 2009, 06:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=354902">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why does it have to be like this or like that? Again, this is Sonic we're talking about here, he will need a distinct Action RPG or turn-based RPG battle system of his own. Interspersing that with more complaints about Sonic Chronicles doesn't strengthen your point.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Yes, it would be great to see something completely new. However, seeing as how I'm not actually making an RPG at the moment and don't have a condensed synopsis of revolutionary ideas, I couldn't possibly demonstrate Sonic RPG-ness in one post. Therefore, I was suggesting existing games that someone might be able to easily picture.
    <!--quoteo(post=354902:date=Sep 26 2009, 06:22 PM:name=Ross-Irving)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ross-Irving @ Sep 26 2009, 06:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=354902">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Now wait just a minute, I call bull. An RPG does not need a party. That basically discredits a lot of action RPGs that only had one playable protagonist (Illusion of Gaia, for instance). These games may not have had a party, but they had many elements of an RPG like leveling up, magic, finding armor, weapons and important items, etc. The idea that you need class systems or a party is just because those are common conventions of the genre, but they shouldn't be the rule. Otherwise, RPGs are not going to be flexible enough to be seen as enjoyable and different. Also, look at Battle Network. One playable protagonist, no party. Still an RPG, and with its own unique methods of powering up and fighting to boot.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You're right of course. I prefer parties because they increase the strategy, and I happen to like enough of Sonic characters that I'm not a "Just Sonic" purist.

    Just a thought here: If someone asked what Mario would be like if it was a Sonic game, we wouldn't use Sonic Labyrinth or Sonic Spinball as examples of Sonic games. In the same way, when someone asks what Sonic would be like as an RPG, it's a little unfair to use games that stretch the definition of RPG. Maybe I'm too old-school, but when someone says RPG I think Dragon Quest, or Final Fantasy 1-6. I don't immediately think of games that have RPG elements but otherwise don't have a strong claim to the category.

    <!--quoteo(post=354906:date=Sep 26 2009, 06:31 PM:name=Ritz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Ritz @ Sep 26 2009, 06:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=354906">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=354896:date=Sep 26 2009, 09:48 AM:name=Mercury)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mercury @ Sep 26 2009, 09:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=354896">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guarantee you if STI had made a SatAM RPG in the Genesis days, it would have been fantastic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pnsn0_w6K9Q" target="_blank">You sure about this?</a>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That video (being the fucking awesomest thing ever) was the biggest reason why I made the claim.
     
  3. muteKi

    muteKi

    Fuck it Member
    7,646
    37
    28
    I'd probably play a MGS-clone game inspired by that storyline. Probably.
     
  4. Chimpo

    Chimpo

    Member
    7,328
    11
    18
    Atomic Sonic Part II
    <!--quoteo(post=354807:date=Sep 26 2009, 04:55 AM:name=Jayextee)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Jayextee @ Sep 26 2009, 04:55 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=354807">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Funny that, I pretty much described a simpler version of Unleashed :v:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Lol wut? Unleashed didn't require you to do much shit to level up. Not to mention that Unleash was hardly a role playing game. Experience points + Level Ups aren't the only things that go into making an RPG. All you've done is make a simple game of platforming complicated and defending it by bitching how nobody will like your idea because it goes against traditional RPGs. It doesn't just go against RPGs, it ignores it all together.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Does that really sound overcomplicated to you? The design isn't that hard to grasp

    =====

    I mean, what exactly is so complicated in that design?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I never stated that it was hard to grasp. It's overcomplicated because it's a bunch of shit that's completely unnecessary for a platformer. Mario didn't need stylish combos and kills for Galaxy or Sunshine, it just needed good levels that presents a challenge. Overcomplicating the Sonic formula is what got the stupid rat to where he is now. Five year olds back in the 90s got into Sonic easily because you only had to worry about one button and skill. Five year olds today find it more difficult because you have homing attacks, boost attacks, drifting, quick stepping, and a bunch of other shit necessary to clear the game. Fuck, the first level in Unleash has a bottomless pit that needs to be crossed by chaining a homing attack. Do you know how many children and adults new to the game I've seen fail at that area? Countless fuckers.
     
  5. muteKi

    muteKi

    Fuck it Member
    7,646
    37
    28
    Oh man, you reminded me just how shitty that part of the level is. I remember right from the first time I saw it I wanted to punch the bastard who thought that was good level design.


    Hm, in retrospect I guess that means the warning signs were there and I was a dumbass for ignoring them. :/
     
  6. Mastered Realm

    Mastered Realm

    A green crystal Member
    How would I make a Sonic RPG?

    Hmm, easy, it would be just (Sonic Chronicles)^-1 or Selcinorhc Cinos.
     
  7. Jay T.

    Jay T.

    It takes an idiot to do cool things... Member
    Personally, like one said, but if Alpha Dream made it similar to how they made the Mario & Luigi series, it could be pretty well done if executed right in my opinion. Though, there's still some noticeable flaws if they do it though, but if they actually made it, I have faith. I mean, the Mario & Luigi RPG series have been well received, though I think Partners in Time was the one that was the lowest. I think Superstar Saga was the highest received, but I haven't seen any reviews of Bowser's Inside Story just yet...but from my experience, the game is really well done.
     
  8. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

    Erinaceous! Oldbie
    First, I have to disagree with Blaze's notion of a Sonic RPG being a self-denying concept... and cite the most obvious contradiction to the point he brought up, that being Mario's own RPGs didn't deny the fundamental aspects of Mario, partly due to the combat being segregated from the Mario aspects and partly due to the players allowing themselves to segregate a spinoff from the main series.

    I'd do it as a straight up platformer with RPG elements. Think Super Paper Mario in the sense of it being a 2D platformer and you only have 1 character out at a time and different characters are needed for different puzzles. Now forget just about everything else about Super Paper Mario since that game is shallow and stupid (and I'm aware that seems to contradict the above)

    RPG side of things:
    Each character builds up independently.
    Leveling doesn't entail changes to damage from basic attacks, instead they just allow the player to purchase more skills, improve old ones, and equip more funky gadgets.

    Action side of things:
    Seemless world. Regions tie into one another with no need to exit an individual screen or anything like that.
    Large emphasis on gimmicks unique to each region.
    Quests available in regions which prompt a player to play around in what equates to a toybox really.
    Borrow heavily from old style level designs, but keep a rule that areas should be traversable in both directions at all times.

    From there its largely an issue of fill in the blanks, but thats the basic idea of what I'd want to do with a Sonic RPG.
     
  9. Sonic Warrior TJ

    Sonic Warrior TJ

    O'Doyle rules! Member
    3,254
    135
    43
    GA
    Did anyone play Mega Man X Command Mission? At it's core it was your everyday JRPG, but it had enough Mega Man flavor to stand out among the rest. It looked like a part of the series visually, and cutscenes were done in about the same fashion as in other current gen (at the time) MMX games. It sounded like part of the series as the music and voice work worked as they do in MMX. X could dash in the overworld, which allowed you to move around the maps a lot quicker. In battle you were able to see a turn list, and each character had unique special moves that didn't feel out of place. The enemies were about what you'd see in a Mega Man X game. And don't forget the extra forms you could upgrade to during battle.

    If you took Sonic Chronicles and even so much as made it look and sound more like it belongs in the Sonic library, you'd get fairly positive feedback. The only real changes I'd make would be to make Sonic the only one playable in the overworld, and to just make Sonic faster than most RPG heroes, and possibly give him the Spin-Dash to fly across an area if you're just passing through. In battle, why are we fighting shit like wild boars when there's probably some Buzzbombers and Crabmeats still loose? A lot of what killed it was that Eggman wasn't really ever the villain, so damn near anything you fought was either a natural creature or a creation of the Nocturnus Tribe. When you think about it, a lot of what makes Sonic games Sonicy are Eggman's effects on the Zones of Sonic's world.

    That's probably how a traditional Sonic RPG might go, as opposed to a Sonic Action RPG. I guess.
     
  10. Aesculapius Piranha

    Aesculapius Piranha

    つづく Oldbie
    4,523
    131
    43
    Unknown
    Diva
    All this talk of overworlds and the like reminded me I had an idea for a Sonic MMO before I even knew the term MMO waaaay back in 1996. But that of course was when my mind was still wrapped around the whole SatAM/Archie storyline.

    Perhaps I will flesh the idea out in a later post here for shits and grins, since my memory only recalls a little bit of wtf I was thinking back then.
     
  11. 0r4ng3

    0r4ng3

    Member
    1,318
    0
    0
    <!--quoteo(post=354662:date=Sep 26 2009, 01:12 AM:name=The Pulse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Pulse @ Sep 26 2009, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=354662">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wont lie. I hated Sonic Chronicles. It is shit. Plain as day, utter fanwanking, shallow, character derailing, best friends treating Sonic like shit, asinine half finished shell of a game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    You and I both. That game had no redeeming qualities to me, except Shade's design alone and some of the background art (though like some said, it doesn't fit Sonic at all). The gameplay was weak for an RPG, the "references" were weak and the story was... weak as well. I've played countless RPG before and that one was incredibly shallow.

    A turn-based RPG doesn't fit Sonic. An ARPG, if well done, might but I still have my doubts. I don't think fighting in that format fits Sonic. The exploring and adventure fields work though (along with levelling up, but up to discussion), we've had proof of that before. But I don't think the majority would like them to be mandatory, so if we make that optional, there's really nothing left from a RPG.

    <!--quoteo(post=354662:date=Sep 26 2009, 01:12 AM:name=The Pulse)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (The Pulse @ Sep 26 2009, 01:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=354662">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Conversely, I have had an idea on how Eggman could become a credible villain without going the GRRR SATAM IS BEST SONIC route.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd--> I thought this was a myth reinforced only by SatAM fanboys.

    <!--quoteo(post=354896:date=Sep 26 2009, 06:48 PM:name=Mercury)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mercury @ Sep 26 2009, 06:48 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=354896">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I guarantee you if STI had made a SatAM RPG in the Genesis days, it would have been fantastic.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I don't think that was very Sonic, to be honest.
     
  12. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

    Emerald Dragoon Moderator
    2,818
    0
    16
    Hampton, VA
    The S Factor: Sonia and Silver
    More Metal Sonic and Metal Knuckles.

    That's all it needs really.
     
  13. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

    A "Community Enigma"? Oldbie
    1,464
    6
    18
    <!--quoteo(post=355099:date=Sep 26 2009, 11:56 PM:name=DimensionWarped)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DimensionWarped @ Sep 26 2009, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=355099">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First, I have to disagree with Blaze's notion of a Sonic RPG being a self-denying concept... and cite the most obvious contradiction to the point he brought up, that being Mario's own RPGs didn't deny the fundamental aspects of Mario, partly due to the combat being segregated from the Mario aspects and partly due to the players allowing themselves to segregate a spinoff from the main series.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ah, but Mario evokes a different sort of image from Sonic. Mario's defining characteristic is "good gameplay". What few gimmicks Mario does have are usually represented in his RPGs (question blocks, health-restoring mushroom power-ups, throwing fireballs).

    When you think of Sonic, you think of speedy gameplay and pinball physics. Sonic is a very action-oriented character who, if you let him stand around for more than a few seconds, scowls at you for making him wait. A traditional RPG is basically a game where Sonic's scowling at you 90% of the time.

    Of course, you could do an action RPG, but by then we're getting in to Sonic Heroes territory and "bop on an enemy's head six times to deplete his life bar" - unless you started making Sonic punch and kick stuff, but that ignores another defining characteristic (the spinball maneuver).
     
  14. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
    4,648
    214
    43
    SonLVL
    <!--quoteo(post=355715:date=Sep 28 2009, 07:41 PM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Sep 28 2009, 07:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=355715">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->unless you started making Sonic punch and kick stuff, but that ignores another defining characteristic (the spinball maneuver).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sonic the Fighters and Sonic Battle had both. :P
     
  15. Ross-Irving

    Ross-Irving

    Member
    1,087
    0
    0
    Hey guys, I know these questions should probably go into technical discussion, but I didn't want to start a new topic and then embarrass myself there. I'll embarrass myself here. This Sonic RPG thing is really sticking out in my mind, it's not going away, and I've been going to town creating concept art and stuff. I want to bring this idea of mine into reality, or at least make a small, isometric, one room demo where Sonic could show his moves off.

    My questions are, what should I do if I want to continue developing this idea? What kind of programming language should I begin learning about?
     
  16. BlazeHedgehog

    BlazeHedgehog

    A "Community Enigma"? Oldbie
    1,464
    6
    18
    <!--quoteo(post=355722:date=Sep 28 2009, 09:09 PM:name=MainMemory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MainMemory @ Sep 28 2009, 09:09 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=355722">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=355715:date=Sep 28 2009, 07:41 PM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Sep 28 2009, 07:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=355715">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->unless you started making Sonic punch and kick stuff, but that ignores another defining characteristic (the spinball maneuver).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Sonic the Fighters and Sonic Battle had both. :P
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    ...and? That's like saying "But Sonic Chronicles!" when I say RPGs and Sonic don't mix. I mean, Fighters and Battle were okay, but they were definitely square-peg-in-round-hole games.
     
  17. phoenixwright7

    phoenixwright7

    Cry, and my whip will accommodate! Member
    I actually liked Sonic Chronicles. Sure, it's a rather simple game by RPG standards, but is there anything really wrong with that? For me, the battle system was pretty addicting too... I'm not sure why though.

    Anyways, if I made a Sonic RPG... hm... I think the only thing that I would change from sonic chronicles is the overworld, actually. Oh, and I'd probably take all of the music out of the game and replace it with remixes from the genesis games XD
     
  18. Chimpo

    Chimpo

    Member
    7,328
    11
    18
    Atomic Sonic Part II
    Everything is easier with pictures:

    [​IMG]

    1) Overworld is an overhead view in a full 3D environment (Rotational camera) Battlefield share the same view as well. Battles are not randomly encountered, instead you can see the enemy much like in Super Mario RPG. The enemies however, are little robot generators.

    2) When you come in contact with a robot generator, the robot generator emits a shield on itself and begins to modify the terrain to form a battlefield. These terrains are pre-made and randomly selected from a pool. The terrain can either greatly assist you in the fight or go against you.

    3) The robot generator then spawns wave after wave of badniks. These can range from simple one hit badniks to tougher ones that require a few more hits.

    4) Battles are fought like a 3D platformer of sorts. Sonic only has two status bars. Health and Speed.

    Speed is gained by using the terrain in the battlefield. Run around and build up enough momentum to store it on your status bar. The speed bar is what's used up when you perform any sort of special action, such as a rush attack or self heal actions. Speed is always at 0 at the beginning of battle, unless you run into the generator at high speeds in the overworld, which will give you a boost at the beginning of battle.

    There is no homing attack, you're going to have to time your jumps or roll into them. The range, and power of your attacks can be upgraded with the use of items of sorts. (For Example: You equip an item that gives a three way split image of yourself when you roll at an enemy, increasing the range of your attack , or a delayed mirror image that let's you attack twice or an item that increase the size of your spin attack itself.)

    Defeating these enemies grant you experience. You must defeat a certain amount of enemies before the shield on the generator is disabled. Badniks will still continue to spawn.

    5) However, you can avoid this entire fight and go after the robot generator itself. By using the terrain you can generate enough speed and attack the generator head on and bypass the shield. Doing so defeats all badniks on the field and creates a multiplier based on how many badniks were left on the field.

    6) Your reward is based apon your perfomance in the fight. Defeating the generator right away, beating all badniks quickly, not getting hit, high multiplier and so on will determine how much Bonus XP you gain and the quality of items you receive.

    Not all generators will have the same speed based weakness, and not all of them will look the same. Some may be more aggresive than others and may try and join in on the fight to attack Sonic in the battlefield and overworld, others might run away from him. This sort of gives you a heads up as to what sort of battle you're probably going to get into. A fast red generator that's shooting fire in the overworld may chase after you. In the battlefield, it could end up spawning fire based enemies with lava in the terrain and might try chasing after you while engulfed in flames. This gives the little generators a bit of personality and avoids it from being stale.
     
  19. Ross-Irving

    Ross-Irving

    Member
    1,087
    0
    0
    Edit: Chimpo has uploaded a doodle to my surprise. Read the revised idea, it's even better than the original post.
     
  20. Chimpo

    Chimpo

    Member
    7,328
    11
    18
    Atomic Sonic Part II
    Might want to re-read it as I've been revising the idea.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.