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How you would have made a Sonic RPG

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by The Pulse, Sep 26, 2009.

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  1. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    NOTE: TAILS' ROLE IS CHANGED.

    If battles were designed to play like Dissidia, but with more than one character to a side in a battle, I would be satisfied. Seriously, if you play the game, and mentally replace your fighter with Sonic, it fits. There's a lot of dashing around, homing attacks, grinding, and what have you. Some mechanics would have to be overhauled to be more thematically appropriate to Sonic, like the whole Bravery system, but Dissidia is a great starting point.

    Now, I think your party should consist of 4 characters, each with their own class and moveset. Sonic, Knuckles, Tails, and Amy. As for how controlling a 4-character party works, the player directly controls one character ("the leader") while the others operate on AI. The player can switch leaders at any time. For extra control, the player can also give indirect commands to AI-controlled teammates, like "Attack the weakest" or "Heal the party". If programmed well, the AI would be competent enough to consistently win against the normal mooks found in random encounters without you interjecting. The AI's default behavior should only be subject to failure against bosses, mini-bosses, and the occasional superpowered mook.

    Sonic would primarily have a speed-focused moveset, obviously. He'd be the Thief/Rogue class, hitting fast and avoiding enemy blows. His role in the team would be to preempt slow-charging (and powerful) enemy attacks. Sonic is a decent fighter in his own right, but his damage still pales in comparison to Knuckles.

    Knuckles would have a power-focused moveset. Acting as the Warrior or Monk of the group, he lays down the hurt on even the most heavily armored foes. In addition to dealing with the big and slow guys, he can also unleash finishing blows on enemies that have been stunned by Sonic (and less commonly Tails and Amy).

    Tails has the most varied moveset, and acts as Medic and Engineer. His attacks do very little damage, but he can fly temporarily and carry/drop party members, small enemies, and small objects. He also creates and administers power-ups which do various things from healing to speed boosts.

    Amy revisits her roots, as she uses a magic-based moveset, and wields tarot cards as her weapon. Her magic is potentially devastating, dealing more damage per hit than any other character and targeting multiple enemies, but is slower and less accurate compared to the other party members. Thus she is relegated to the rearguard along with Tails.
     
  2. 0r4ng3

    0r4ng3

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    <!--quoteo(post=355715:date=Sep 28 2009, 07:41 PM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Sep 28 2009, 07:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=355715">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->unless you started making Sonic punch and kick stuff, but that ignores another defining characteristic (the spinball maneuver).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I think it was Sonic X that Sonic used to kick a lot of stuff around but never punched something. I don't think it would look out of place for him to fight with his legs, but not with his arms.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1) Overworld is an overhead view in a full 3D environment (Rotational camera) Battlefield share the same view as well. Battles are not randomly encountered, instead you can see the enemy much like in Super Mario RPG. The enemies however, are little robot generators.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Chrono Trigger had the visible enemies. There was an option at the beginning that allowed chosing from random to on-screen enemies.

    That drawing is very cute. I like Sonic's "tornado" attack as well.
     
  3. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    Atomic Sonic Part II
    <!--quoteo(post=355801:date=Sep 29 2009, 01:31 AM:name=0r4ng3)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (0r4ng3 @ Sep 29 2009, 01:31 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=355801">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Chrono Trigger had the visible enemies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    It was just an example, I'm not interested if something else did it too.
     
  4. 0r4ng3

    0r4ng3

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    It was an example as how it's possible for the player to chose one or the other.
     
  5. McAleeCh

    McAleeCh

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    Actually, what Chrono Trigger allowed a choice between was a more traditional turn-based battle system, or "Active Battle", which was a more unpredictable system where you and enemies can attack each other simultaneously, but take time to recharge before being allowed to attack again. Random enemies never came into it.
     
  6. Shadow Hog

    Shadow Hog

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    Y'know, if a Sonic RPG couldn't work (and not saying it can't, given that a lot of people here feel it can), then they could always focus on another character who's more prone to slower-paced games. Like, I dunno, Tails? I sure wouldn't mind a Tails RPG, provided his characterization was more like an innocent kid (like he used to be) and not a know-it-all Sonic-suckup who barely qualifies for his sidekick anymore (like he's been these days). It's not like he hasn't starred in slower-paced games already, anyway...
     
  7. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=356280:date=Sep 30 2009, 07:13 PM:name=Shadow Hog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Shadow Hog @ Sep 30 2009, 07:13 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=356280">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Y'know, if a Sonic RPG couldn't work (and not saying it can't, given that a lot of people here feel it can), then they could always focus on another character who's more prone to slower-paced games. Like, I dunno, Tails? I sure wouldn't mind a Tails RPG, provided his characterization was more like an innocent kid (like he used to be) and not a know-it-all Sonic-suckup who barely qualifies for his sidekick anymore (like he's been these days). It's not like he hasn't starred in slower-paced games already, anyway...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Actually, that idea sounds like it could be workable.

    It could play like Dark Cloud (the first one), where Tails has to explore randomly-generated dungeons to collect scattered pieces of a machine and then assemble them in a "Georama Mode". It could also have an Item Crafting system, where Tails can take dropped loot back to his workshop and build/upgrade equipment and items.
     
  8. Sonic Warrior TJ

    Sonic Warrior TJ

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    What about a Chaotix RPG with a bit of a focus on sleuthing and stealth? Vector would be great at looking for clues, Espio could ninja his way into instances to eavesdrop on conversations, and Charmy can be on stand by as a backup who could grow to be better at one or the other depending on who he helps more, with his flying ability being quite useful for either.

    Wait, isn't Sega working on/publishing an espionage RPG or something? I need to go check that out and come back later....for now, think about it ;)

    Unfortunately the characters are still 'obscure' enough to not attract too much attention/praise for their own game. People would see it, classify it as a Sonic game, and bitch about it being too slow.

    Edit: So yeah, I guess something like Alpha Protocol but with a party of characters rather than one guy. And no guns I guess. 'Real' ones anyway.
     
  9. The Game Collector

    The Game Collector

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    I would have made a Sonic RPG the only way I technically could - with RPG maker on Playstation. Except there is no way I could draw the character sprites correctly...

    Then make up some corny story and we're good to go.

    Really in order to make Sonic into an RPG, he would need to leave his roots. Like grabbing his sword from Sonic and the Black Knight. It's a let's pretend Sonic is like this fanfest...
     
  10. I hate you. Bioware is the best company ever.
     
  11. GARY M 9

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    Huh, I already had the idea to make a Sonic RPG before this topic was made and already had the basis down for how I was going to make it but I just started coding it a few days ago. Well, it's not really an RPG because atm it lacks a storyline but it has RPG elements in it... you get the point.

    I'll probably post a beta or a "Proof of Concept" build somewhere here when it gets to a presentable level.
     
  12. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

    Erinaceous! Oldbie
    <!--quoteo(post=355715:date=Sep 28 2009, 08:41 PM:name=BlazeHedgehog)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (BlazeHedgehog @ Sep 28 2009, 08:41 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=355715">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=355099:date=Sep 26 2009, 11:56 PM:name=DimensionWarped)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (DimensionWarped @ Sep 26 2009, 11:56 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=355099">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->First, I have to disagree with Blaze's notion of a Sonic RPG being a self-denying concept... and cite the most obvious contradiction to the point he brought up, that being Mario's own RPGs didn't deny the fundamental aspects of Mario, partly due to the combat being segregated from the Mario aspects and partly due to the players allowing themselves to segregate a spinoff from the main series.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ah, but Mario evokes a different sort of image from Sonic. Mario's defining characteristic is "good gameplay". What few gimmicks Mario does have are usually represented in his RPGs (question blocks, health-restoring mushroom power-ups, throwing fireballs).

    When you think of Sonic, you think of speedy gameplay and pinball physics. Sonic is a very action-oriented character who, if you let him stand around for more than a few seconds, scowls at you for making him wait. A traditional RPG is basically a game where Sonic's scowling at you 90% of the time.

    Of course, you could do an action RPG, but by then we're getting in to Sonic Heroes territory and "bop on an enemy's head six times to deplete his life bar" - unless you started making Sonic punch and kick stuff, but that ignores another defining characteristic (the spinball maneuver).
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    Calling "good gameplay" a defining characteristic is vague to the point of being idle banter. Mario gained definition in pretty much the same ways as Sonic did. What distinguished Super Mario Brothers from its predecessors such as Donkey Kong and Pitfall? Simple. The action was faster and more varied. When we are talking about that idea that follow throughout the series, that enemies on't really slow you down as much as in other games, thats right there in Super Mario Brothers. You can plow right through most enemies with a single smack and that stayed immutable until Super Mario World and even then only a select few enemies could sustain multiple hits (and most of those was a simple matter of bop-bop again dead). So ignoring the assorted sports players, it was an almost immutable rule of the original series. Take Super Mario Brothers 2 for instance... probably the most commonly disfavored of the original series. The game loses that part of the definition with all of its need for picking up and throwing items in order to be at all effectual. It was undeniably a good quality game, and yet so extremely not Mario.

    When I think of Sonic, it isn't so much the "pinball" notion of physics that I lean to anywhere near as much as I think of a quality platformer with an emphasis on physical interaction in general. Pinball makes it seem so cheap... like gravity is the only factor of relevance and everything else is just a matter of bumps and jumps. When you get right down to it, Pinball is the exact opposite of what makes Sonic... a game where your control is so limited that your moves are solely defined by your hits and your interuptions. Yeah, when rolling there is that moment where you go slack and lose a good deal of control, but your influence is always present and always necessary.

    Now, don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of the Action RPG approach... but you know I hate Heroes with a passion that burns brighter than a neutron star. I think the comparison is a cheap jab which is missing the mark entirely. Mooks should always be mooks. Thats true in the Paper Mario games. Even late in the game, if you are any good you can take down most any regular enemy in two well made hits. The problem with Heroes lies far more in the execution than in the concept.

    And if it were going to be a turn based RPG, you could still do it, you'd just need to up the presentation to fit with the idea of what Sonic is. It's simple enough to build the illusion. Darken the screen, slow the animation during the action selections and suddenly its as though the action never really slowed down at all. If its a question of feelings flowing from mechanics that define the game, you find a way to create the feelings another way when the mechanics are absent.

    Forgive the typos and grammar by the by. I'm at that point of sleep deprivation where keeping my eyes open is becoming somewhat painful.
     
  13. Phos

    Phos

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    I've heard of people describe the battles in Bower's Inside Story as almost playing like a rhythm game, you have to almost constantly do stuff to make attacks work effectively and to dodge the enemies attacks. Sonic Chronicles's battles seemed very compartmentalized, each action had an obvious delay after the last, unless it was just spamming the regular attacks. There was basically zero flow to the battles, and the Osu! style commands seemed like a chore to do, and the shortage of POW points early in the game mean it was mostly spent... spamming the regular attack. If you happened to figure out that "atk" actually increased your accuracy, this strategy worked rather well.

    I think what made the POW moves such a chore was the same thing that makes poorly made QTE's in general a chore, and that is that you end up watching the prompts for your commands rather than the action. It's like Itagaki says, if you're going to put the button right there, why bother displaying anything else?

    It's tough to say what would really make an RPG feel like a Sonic game.
     
  14. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

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    A few things that could have made them seem a little less boring would have been to up the animation quality, add some effects to make them seem like they are actually having some form of impact, and generally to just speed them up. All the moves were slow to the point of being ridiculous. Bioware's biggest problems were probably presentation and lack of variety.
     
  15. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=357018:date=Oct 3 2009, 03:38 AM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Oct 3 2009, 03:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357018">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's tough to say what would really make an RPG feel like a Sonic game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I keep telling you guys, Dissidia is what a Sonic RPG should be like.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH06KZemi_8&feature=related" target="_blank">Pretend Onion Knight is Sonic and isn't casting magic.</a>
     
  16. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    <!--quoteo(post=357268:date=Oct 4 2009, 04:56 AM:name=RedStripedShoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RedStripedShoes @ Oct 4 2009, 04:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357268">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=357018:date=Oct 3 2009, 03:38 AM:name=Phos)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phos @ Oct 3 2009, 03:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357018">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It's tough to say what would really make an RPG feel like a Sonic game.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I keep telling you guys, Dissidia is what a Sonic RPG should be like.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH06KZemi_8&feature=related" target="_blank">Pretend Onion Knight is Sonic and isn't casting magic.</a>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ha ha, oh wow.

    No.
     
  17. Frozen Nitrogen

    Frozen Nitrogen

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    <!--quoteo(post=357268:date=Oct 4 2009, 04:56 AM:name=RedStripedShoes)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RedStripedShoes @ Oct 4 2009, 04:56 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357268">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I keep telling you guys, Dissidia is what a Sonic RPG should be like.

    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH06KZemi_8&feature=related" target="_blank">Pretend Onion Knight is Sonic and isn't casting magic.</a><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I could see that working. I could see that working a lot.

    The points that have been made about slow-paced gameplay (and the annoyance of watching the stylus markers rather than the POW moves; I actually ended up New-Game-Plus-ing with permanent full-party Ferox just so I could actually see the moves for once) are certainly valid, but not my major concern. Baldur's Gate and the Bioware games with the Infinity Engine were essentially played on PAUSE, and I still enjoyed those thoroughly. What annoyed me about Chronicles was mostly the second half of the game, when it turned from a rather brilliant re-exploration of Sonic's world and character interactions to "OMG LOOK ALIENS!!1!"

    Still, extending the hand of cross-canon gleischaltung to such comic concepts as Archie's Dark Legion and Fleetway's Gone-In-A-Fast-Time-Alternate-Dimension-So-Robotnik-Can-Conquer-The-World-In-Their-Absence gets + points.
     
  18. RedStripedShoes

    RedStripedShoes

    And I'm gone again. Member
    <!--quoteo(post=357274:date=Oct 4 2009, 07:22 AM:name=Chimpo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chimpo @ Oct 4 2009, 07:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=357274">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ha ha, oh wow.

    No.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Thanks for the insightful feedback as always, Chimpo.
     
  19. DimensionWarped

    DimensionWarped

    Erinaceous! Oldbie
    Thats because it was a stupid suggestion. Dissidia is more like a Dragon Ball Z fighting game than any kind of RPG.
     
  20. SF94

    SF94

    Tech Member
    Sonic Adventure, only more RPGey. Yeah.
     
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