Assembler games member has Sonic xtreme POV stuff

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Spinksy, Oct 21, 2014.

  1. Just amazing. Can't believe there is a Saturn build already running, regardless if you can control Sonic or not.
     
  2. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    Please ignore them all.
     
  3. Cooljerk

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    Oh believe me, it's not bothering me. In fact, I've been laughing at most of the more ignorant stuff being hurled my way, keeping them into a folder on my PC in a funny little digital scrapbook. But this is sort of what I've been recruited to do - absorb these dumb posts and comments and try my best to explain the situation as simply as possible to make others understand exactly what's going on.

    I knew this stuff was coming, it's no shock. But I still felt the urge to address it. I'm not sure if anything has been sent Andrew75 or JR's way, which is good. Most of it is coming from the expected places, like 4chan.
     
  4. Clownacy

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    How do you intend to "preserve" the code if it's going to remain inaccessible? Did you pass a copy of it back to Ofer, or did you mean something else?
     
  5. Cooljerk

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    Well, there's a difference between distributing and preserving. This code is no longer sitting on 20 year old harddrives, it's been archived (many times) to ensure it doesn't die with a single harddrive as everyone fears.
     
  6. Spinksy

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    I think the fact that you're respecting Ofer Alons wish shows a lot!

    Not many people would have the courage to do this, I say courage because this is obviously going to be the main point of abuse that you get.

    You're all doing a great job and I'm very thankful to all involved in this!

    Keep up the great work.
     
  7. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Interesting question from a preservation/ethics point of view - what would your thoughts be on a theoretical release of the source code in say 100 years time, by which point everyone who's ever had any involvement with it would be long dead? You'd have to pass it down as a sort of heirloom, of course, for descendants to do the actual release.
     
  8. Clownacy

    Clownacy

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    But that can mean it'll die with a person's interest. If the archives go untouched by the only person that can access them, then it's as good as dead. At least with Ofer, letting it die is very unlikely.
     
  9. Cooljerk

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    With due respect, I think I should refrain from answering said question if only because I can't possibly give an appropriate answer that wouldn't wind up causing more problems (either for or against your proposal, I mean). I definitely have my views on this, but I'm not sure how they reflect the way Andrew75 or JR feel and I don't want to begin speaking for the group like that.

    I will explain the mindset behind how we can release a build of the game and remain generally ok with ourselves where distributing the source would make us feel uneasy: Ofer Alon obviously doesn't want his source distributed. But JR didn't get this source from Ofer, despite it being (mainly) his source. Once a binary is built, his original source is so obfuscated by the translation to machine code that it effectively stops being his source. Nobody can do anything to his source unless they are willing to work with a disassembly, at which point I would argue it's not even the original source anymore.

    I will say, in my own opinion in general, not about Sonic Xtreme independently I like openess and ease of access to information, but not to the point where freedom of information outweighs any and all negatives. In this case, for at least the immediate future, it's best for the community that this source doesn't leak. At the same time, I also don't want it to be put into a situation where it can vanish from the face of the earth, if that makes sense.

    Mm, I generally agree in principle, but the practicality of the situation doesn't always make this reality. That said, Ofer still has his source, so this isn't in the hands of a single person.
     
  10. Overlord

    Overlord

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    Fair enough view. Thanks for the response!
     
  11. hxc

    hxc

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    Happy to see this being driven forward by others. Keep it up, folks.
     
  12. As someone working on a project very similar to yours (in cooperation with 3D Realms / Apogee Software, Ltd.), I am immensely thankful to your team that this data is in good hands. JR devoting such extended periods of time to a project like this is the sign of a true fan and a dedicated professional.

    The archives that I have been organizing contain no source code for most of the games in question, which is especially frustrating when I have to circumvent nasty DOS-era protections such as parallel port dongles and scans of the primary hard disk's master boot record. As such, I understand the public desire to have the source, and I'll admit that it's something I would be curious to see. However, I support your team's decision. I hope circumstances evolve enough so that we can see it someday, but I can be patient indefinitely, and there are good reasons for us all to focus our attention on the reconstruction effort.
     
  13. Cooljerk

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    Funnily enough, JR is not a sonic fan. He doesn't dislike the games or anything, but he probably wouldn't be posting here normally. What compels JR to undertake this project is a very unique mentality that I think a lot of hacker-y people share. In the first place, JR has a passion for developing on old systems he worked on in the past in general, as a hobby. He likes to tinker with electronics like this. But more importantly, when he ran across this source, he immediately understood the importance of the project. JR isn't dumb, he knows people have been dying to get their hands on this game for ages and sort of felt it was his duty to get it out to people.

    The guy really is commendable.
     
  14. Hats even more off to him then!
     
  15. Eric Wright

    Eric Wright

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    coincidentally, this is why I'm both confused and dismayed at the fact that Ofer doesn't want his work shared openly. I'm not angry, I respect the effort that he put into it, but I'm amazed that he either can't see, or is actively ignoring or disregarding, the fact that there have been countless people dying to see more of this game that could have been a defining title for a platform, if not a defining experience of their gaming past.

    I know I was only a piss-ant 12-year-old when magazines were offering coverage of the game, but the mere anticipation of X-Treme basically set the foundation of my gaming exposure during the mid/late 90s. I was almost literally waiting for every next-game-I-played to be as satisfying as my imagination had built X-Treme to be, even after it was canned.

    Maybe he's like JollyRoger, and it was more about the technical execution than the mythos, the character, the world, the IP... but if there's still any line of communication to Ofer himself (like there has been with Chris Senn), I hope he knows that there is genuine love for the entire X-Treme project as a whole, as well as all the work by everyone involved.



    HA.
     
  16. Cooljerk

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    So some more information about the saturn build. It came to be because JR has built together a toolchain to build him ISOs from the source, previously it was building DSK images that didn't contain the binary at all, so they couldn't be mounted in any way.

    As for the actual demo itself, the build is problematic. The demo begins by displaying a red screen for several moments, before panning the camera over the level in a loop, and by pressing start, the camera moves in on sonic. At this point, pressing the L and R triggers changes the world color from blue to red. However, you cannot move Sonic at all. This means the game is correctly polling the controller, but we don't know how to move Sonic yet. One theory is that none of the emulators have analog stick support, and maybe Sonic was controlled with the analog stick. So that might be why we can't progress.

    However, it is also likely that the problem is an emulator error. It runs in various states across various emulators. When burned using the built-in Windows ISO burner, it will run on Yabause, albeit incorrectly. Pressing start doesn't work on the controller. If one uses imgburn to burn the ISO, it'll boot on SSF, where it exhibits the behavior above. However, if one uses the Windows ISO Burner, it won't boot in SSF at all.

    Finally, on real hardware, it hangs at the red screen. The thought is that it's hanging while looking for some file that may be in the wrong location on the disc and hence isn't booting. That could hopefully be a quick fix. Once JR gets his cartdev going, he can step through execution and figure out exactly what file the red screen is hanging on when trying to load, to figure out what's wrong.
     
  17. Dark Sonic

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    I feel like it's probably some broken title screen.
     
  18. This is some really fantastic and exciting news. Not just a beta version of a beloved game, but a beta version of an outright canceled game, one that had been anticipated by many of us! Thanks and kudos to all involved for their hard work!
     
  19. Beltway

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    Surprised you guys got one of the X-treme builds up and running quickly! Can't wait to see more-either from the build itself or from the other available builds.

    I'm going to take a gander and guess some of the people who've been barraging you with nasty emails are doing it for shits and giggles rather than being butthurt/overdramatic about the situation. Nice to know you're not letting them push your buttons. (Given my sarcastic outburst when JR refused to send you the code initially, I might be a pot calling the kettle black though.)
     
  20. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    So was that build of Sonic Xtreme that the community lost to some guy ever released? If not, would that be in this since there are multiple builds?