Rush had useless physics, with gems like rolling not gaining speed downhill and jumps with practically no inertia. You want to deny the idea that "boost Sonic doesn't need slope physics" by citing as acceptable the games that barely use them and the physics of 4.1. So you're either saying that's what you want, or you didn't notice how poor Rush's physics are; ie., making the opposite point of the one you're trying to.
I'm guessing it's more a function of the resources and freedom the team is being given, rather than the team itself. Any other crew is going to have the same tight budget and orders from above, minus the familiarity. Probably minus some ridiculous design decisions too admittedly, but I find that I cant make a call as to what's poor design for no reason and what's poor design because of poor time/human resources.
About the Rush physics, what weirded me out is that even though rolling didn't work as it should, sliding (in Colors DS) was actually pretty close for some reason. You could even slide across shuttle loops! It is so mind-boggling to me that they could do that and applied it to the wrong move. Regarding Forces, if there's one thing I can say about the current discussion, it's that Sonic fans are very... passionate about this franchise. I share the same opinion as most people here, but if there's one thing I've learned over the years it's that everyone has different tastes and standards, and even though your opinion should absolutely be heard, there comes a point where you need to stop and think about whether your approach feels hostile. Everyone has the right to enjoy a work, and while there are always two sides to anything, it isn't fair for either of them to criticize the other unless we're talking about very specific and worrisome contexts. Since this is about a fictional blue hedgehog, it would be cool to leave out all the potentially offensive remarks (intentional or otherwise), regardless of how much Sonic means to you and how you feel about this game in particular. Yes, I think the game looks bad, and I'd hate for this to be a sign of things to come, but that's not a good reason to start pointing fingers and thinking less of those who have their own two cents. People need to chill and take a moment to consider that criticizing something isn't quite the same as criticizing someone.
Do you know the real problem? The real problem is that people who can like this game could really love this game if people who currently hates this game had seen at least half of their expectations satisfied. I mean, the standards may be different, and I've loved a lot of crappy things in my life and enjoyed it, so I've been (I am) on that side sometimes, but that doesn't mean it's just a different way of doing things, it's just a worse way of doing things that somehow was good enough for some people. The most worrying thing is thinking Sonic Team saw this and felt it like a good enough work. I would never be able to feel I've done my job if I was in their place and the result of my work was this. It's like insulting themselves, from my point of view, because making it a bit better couldn't have taken them so much time to stress them. And, of course, it's insulting their fans, even the fans who think this is good enough and enjoy the final game without serious complaints. For the record, I'd like making my own characters and checking out the story, so I'm also missing interesting opportunities when choosing to not buy it, but I can't buy shit and pretend it doesn't smell.
People don't want at least half their expectations satisfied. Most good games will satisfy at least 85% of expectations. The fanbase is sick of being given unsatisfactory games. They're exhausted. Yes, the ranting is tiresome to listen to, and to see happen. But it's happening for a reason.
I've already mentioned this previously, but for the sake of clarity, I don't think ranting is a problem in and of itself (you should see my walls of text about Crash Bandicoot). If anything, it's indicative of how much you care about a certain topic. I just strongly disagree with criticizing fellow fans for having different views. I think everyone here just wants Forces to be good, so if there's anyone who should be on the receiving end of all this criticism, it's Sega and Sonic Team. They're the ones trying to make and sell you a product. Fortunately, most people here have the right idea, but some are taking it a little too personally and treading into uncomfortable territory. You've got newbies making fun of oldbies, oldbies criticizing newbies... There's no point to that.
Hey so you can like bad games. Lord knows I like some bad games. But I don't pretend they are good either. They're bad, but I like them. I dunno if I can like Forces though. It feels jaded. Like it doesn't even want to exist.
What I agree with most about this is how much it goes both ways. It's easy to suspect a rant contains judgement, fair enough, but it's also easy to turn one's own personal irritation with a rant into personal comments. Honestly I would guess a lot of the negative posters here are dialling it down (because I for one am bitter about 1 good classic game in literally 20 years) because of the wave of ironic hostility that washes back at them. All because it's easy to label criticism of unwarranted praise as "bad", and criticism of any complaints as something that's fine to do.
Well, on the subject of the game itself, here's something I've been thinking : Do you think the tag team stages will have their own music ? 'cause I've been listening to the soundtrack a lot lately, and I realized the tag team stage music sound very similar to sunset height (in term of instrumentation, at least) All the playable characters seems to have their own style : Classic Sonic have genesis sounding tunes, the custom character have lyrics, and Sonic got tracks that sound straight out of runners. Shadow seem to have remixes of past tracks (Supporting me and white jungle, I think) But then there's the tag team stage : [media]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmlSdjJCtwI[/media] It sounds a lot like something Modern Sonic would have. So here's my (incredibly predictable) theory : This track is actually Modern Sonic's version of green hill zone, and it's just being used again for the tag team stage. We won't know for sure until we see more gameplay, of course, but I'm pretty sure that's the case. Also I wonder how Casino Forest is going to sound with modern Sonic's anime AF style :v:/> Definitely looking forward to that one
I just noticed Something... Sonic 4 E2 and Sonic Generations 3DS are the only modern Sonic games with 'ok/passable' classic physics. Both done by Dimps
The classic physics here do seem to be at least a little closer to what they ought to be. There's a bit in the Green Hill stage where he hits enemies from the side and goes through them, rather than getting extra height like in Generations. They're still not the same as the classics (at the very start of the stage he jumps on an enemy and the rebound is slightly higher than his original jump height), but they have been tweaked, if that counts for anything.
But the slope physics are at least worse of what we got. :/ Generations 3DS had better momentum than other games, too.
Generations 3DS is better, but it's off enough to feel really weird. I think it's very overrated, probably because it was released in the midst of S4 and Generations HD which didn't have anything close to accurate Classic physics. Generations 3DS physics would be an improvement, but they would still be a big step down from Mania. And to be honest, Forces would be rubbish regardless of whether or not it had Mania to be compared to.
But the fact the mania exists does make it worse. Since where getting modern stages redone, anyone want to see eggman land, it would make since with the premise of the game.
I do wonder, are Sonic Team purposefully not making Classic Sonic feel like the classic games (and Mania)? This isn't so much a dig at them, more a curious thought, like maybe they think they've got something better? Keep in mind I know jack shit about programming and the classic physics, but can't a dev at Sonic Team just sit down and go "Okay, this is how much he accelerates at this time-point in the original game, therefore we need to adjust our 3D Classic Sonic to the same amount of speed..." Okay, yeah that's me phrasing it in a dumb way, but you'd think through trial-and-error you'd match the movement up at some point, right? It's also amusing how Dimps managed to do just fine with Sonic Advance 1. That was like, their first/second attempt at 3D Sonic? (depending if you're counting Pocket Adv). I just get the vibe that Sonic Team can, but choose not to for some reason.
Dimps' only 3D Sonic game was Lost World 3DS, a game that could have been totally viable and better than the Wii U version had it's massive stupid fucking levels been cut into smaller chunks.
Gonna have to disagree there: -Copy/pasted levels for Classic Sonic's Genesis era -Homing attack given very early to Classic Sonic making the two 2D gameplay styles near-redundant -Pretty shit level design (where it wasn't stretched out for modern sonic, it was plagued with bottomless pits) I suppose the positives were that Classic Sonic's physics were better and the Time Eater fight was exponentially better, but ugh that game just doesn't hit the right notes for me. If you like it, then great. More power to you. I won't take that away from you if you actually enjoy it. I just think the standard should be much higher than that. I'd take any of the Rush games over Generations 3DS.
