People say they like somebody else's work more than yours, and all of a sudden you have to leave the project? I don't get it. This has to be, like, the first time somebody's ever left legitimate criticism of your work in light of a specific goal. All I saw on the old forums were people mindlessly praising you without any constructive discussion. Maybe you're not used to it, and maybe I came on a bit strong, but I see absolutely no reason for that attitude. There's nothing significantly different going on here, and a "Sonic 4" sort of concept would not have taken a Sonic CD direction in terms of style. That was specific to Naoto Ohshima's way of thinking, and it's pretty obvious that a sequel would have, again, been headed by Hirokazu Yasuhara. I believe Black Squirrel's mockup is more similar to that style. Why don't you, exactly? You're not helping at all. Be constructive, or... well, just don't reply. We don't need this crap.
Nonononono, this has nothing to do with criticism or whatever. I think it just has to do with creative differences. If this game is going to use an art style that I feel is not the right choice, I might as well just not be part of it. I'm not saying that it's bad, it's just not how I have always envisioned this project. Since this is now officially a community project, I am not going to go out of my way to force my work into this when the community seem to prefer something else more. So, if my art style is not what is wanted, I see no point in me being part of this. I'm not trying to have a bad attitude or anything, I'm just trying to be sensible. I mean, since this project was first started, people have been complaining about my work on this level and I guess it's about time that I start listening to this...
<!--quoteo(post=243359:date=Nov 10 2008, 03:28 AM:name=PC2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PC2 @ Nov 10 2008, 03:28 AM) I also have to agree with Guess Who - this is "the Sonic sequel", isn't it? Perhaps we should do something other than just straight up tiles - get a little random with it like AIZ, maybe.[/quote] Why can't we just continue the changes made here? Keep the pattern but up the detail, maybe throw in a few unique tile sections here and there to mix things up a bit, surely that would meet the best of both worlds?
Personally, I think Rika's art looks good. Seeing as it's been used since the stars, why not continue using it and improving it? As for the other art... ...basically this. (Yes, I can see the Chaotix tree, the generic new grass, and the random plants and cave stuff.) This is supposed to be, well, a fourth Sonic game, and Green Hill Zone+ doesn't seem to be right for that.
<!--quoteo(post=243508:date=Nov 10 2008, 07:56 AM:name=Black Squirrel)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Black Squirrel @ Nov 10 2008, 07:56 AM) [/quote] I really like this, since it doesn't look old to me. It looks like something I've never seen before and I like it a lot. If we were to do something like art-y transitions between acts, like Act 1 Dock -> Act 2 Beach -> Act 3 Overgrown rain forest or something like that, we could make the zones more diverse if we wanted to, but we could keep elements from previous zones sorta. Like, in the rain forest act we could have metal bridges that go over the water, but are broken apart and rusted away from all of the rain and have trees breaking through them making holes leading underwater. And, to not have to make radically new tiles for each act, we could have similar tiles in each act. So, act 1 could have been bombed by Robotnik before Sonic got there, and as you get closer to shore, you start seeing sand on the docks, so in the beach level, we can have high tech walks that rise high above the beach that Sonic can take elevators up to, that have a small layer of sand on them. Something like that, you know?
To be fair back in July when I made that set I wasn't going for an original look. I was kinda going for an "enhanced" look - so people would instantly know it was a Sonic tileset and not something completely different. I can assure you nothing's taken directly from another game though. Rika's stuff is probably a better choice, but it still needs a bit of editing so that it doesn't make this game look like Sonic 2 Advanced Edit 2. But even then a quick palette change would probably fix that.
People, please calm down. Remember that everyone has a different idea of what this game should be. I propose a hybrid of some sort between the two backgrounds: Not exactly the sexiest example, but just throwing it out there as a concept. Feel free to expand upon this in some way, shape, or form.
<!--quoteo(post=243633:date=Nov 10 2008, 10:26 PM:name=CyclopsCaveman)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (CyclopsCaveman @ Nov 10 2008, 10:26 PM) Keep the fresh clean like tiles for the start of the level but as you get closer to the circus level things get slightly run down with tiles knocked off, cracks, maybe a slightly different texture underneath as things change from tropical to more urban?
That's not quite what I had in mind but I agree that somewhere between the two would be ideal -- the only real issue that I have with Rika's art is, again, that the texture is too simple. I don't have anything against the art in Mushroom Hill either, but it's a bit simple for a project that I feel is supposed to expand on Sonic 3 / Sonic & Knuckles. That new art that you've made appears non-uniform. Consider for example, Chaotix, arguably the next game in the series. It's using a lot of different colors and patterns for those floor tiles. Their less uniform design and occasional checkered patterns actually remind me much of Sonic 2's first level. Because more of the color and graphics space has to be used for enemies and other objects, the ground is monochromatic, but the patterns are more complex and nonuniform than the ones proposed here.
<!--quoteo(post=243645:date=Nov 10 2008, 04:42 PM:name=Matwek)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Matwek @ Nov 10 2008, 04:42 PM) [/quote]I actually like this a lot. It keeps things from getting too repetitive and "tidy". It also seems to add a lot more depth to the structure. The idea of changing the level art as the player nears the end of the zone isn't such a bad idea, especially for a first stage. They did it in Scrap Brain and a lot of the S3K stages, and Mushroom Hill had its cool changing palette. Changing the actual foreground pattern makes it all the more interesting.
I never suggested it absolutely had to be an overgrown rain forest. It could always be split into two separate branches, one branch from the dock act that leads to two beach acts (and then two different routes that lead to two different paths through zone two, going back to the catwalks idea I had) and another one that leads directly to land and skips over the beach, giving two acts of whatever kind of grassy/plainy/foresty area we decide on to use, but leads to two different paths in the second zone, but the top path is the same as the bottom path from the beach, and the bottom path has Sonic going under the Carnival, and maybe we could have the top two levels of the Carnival separate from the bottom, so that you take the bottom path and you can later fight bosses in different arenas than at the top or bottom of the carnival, and each boss leads into a different path, and branches off into different zone designs for top, middle, and bottom paths, and if you take all bottom paths, or take the bottom path in act 3, you go into the sewers.
I don't think bosses should be rehashed. To keep things fresh, new bosses should be created for each zone, therefore giving the player a reason to play the game again and again.
<!--quoteo(post=243641:date=Nov 10 2008, 04:41 PM:name=PC2)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (PC2 @ Nov 10 2008, 04:41 PM) Not exactly the sexiest example, but just throwing it out there as a concept. Feel free to expand upon this in some way, shape, or form.[/quote] That's pretty cool, actually! I especially love the look of the grass—very nice hybrid. I also like the idea of the irregularities in the tiles. Can someone try it on something like PC2's example? It could turn out to be very interesting.
I'm not saying 'rehash bosses'. If that's what it seemed like when I was talking about fighting bosses in different arenas, I meant zone-specific bosses. Sorry if I came off on the wrong tangent there about bosses.
<!--quoteo(post=243659:date=Nov 10 2008, 10:02 PM:name=Tweaker)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tweaker @ Nov 10 2008, 10:02 PM) Not exactly the sexiest example, but just throwing it out there as a concept. Feel free to expand upon this in some way, shape, or form.[/quote] That's pretty cool, actually! I especially love the look of the grass—very nice hybrid. I also like the idea of the irregularities in the tiles. Can someone try it on something like PC2's example? It could turn out to be very interesting. [/quote] Any chance whoever gives it a go can do one with the same pallet as the first of the 3 and one keeping the hybrid version? For a quick comparison. I like the extra detail on the hybrid but Im just a little worried it might look like a game of Columns if the colours are too different from one another.
I'm really liking the grass of the composited image, but the ground tiles could use some work; to expand on what Matwek said, they really look more like Columns jewels randomly stuck into dirt than actual ground pieces. Perhaps you could either make the darker bits look less recessed or make the parts sticking stick out less?
Since we are apparently talking about aesthetic here, I can honestly say that this is the first mockup I've seen that is worthy of a Sonic sequel. Rika's stuff is very cool, but it just seems to monochromatic. This new style is PERFECT
<!--quoteo(post=243211:date=Nov 9 2008, 02:41 PM:name=Phoebius)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Phoebius @ Nov 9 2008, 02:41 PM) [/quote] Safe to assume that when the player runs on this, it does a sort of reverse EHZ2 spiral gimmick? At least, thats the impression I'm feeling from it. @Rika: You could always join up with the Nexus crew. We try to adhere to the SonicCD visual style for the most part.
<!--quoteo(post=243804:date=Nov 10 2008, 09:19 PM:name=Mad Echidna)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Mad Echidna @ Nov 10 2008, 09:19 PM) I can honestly say that this is the first mockup I've seen that is worthy of a Sonic sequel. Rika's stuff is very cool, but it just seems to monochromatic. This new style is PERFECT[/quote] What the hell. Someone explain the appeal of that? It's just EHZ and GHZ with a texture, a new pallete, new grass, and some custom plants. I'd say he custom drew everything, but that's all the design is. (obvious 2 second ms paint job on my part.) I mean, it looks good, but it isn't original at all, unlike Rika's.
Honestly, I think that if the original team had made a sequel following Sonic and Knuckles, they probably wouldn't have done another Green Hill Zone. It would have been another somewhat similar concept but radicalized in the same fashion as Angel Island or Mushroom Hill. Simple of course, but far less so than EHZ/GHZ. For that reason, I think the original set is more fitting than a bunch of GHZ touchups.
