The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    26 vote(s)
    20.3%
  2. I hate it

    44 vote(s)
    34.4%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    18 vote(s)
    14.1%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    40 vote(s)
    31.3%
  1. That's a fair reason; I may not like it from a creative standpoint but one of the biggest problems of Modern Sonic is character bloat, so I get the logic and reasoning behind the decision at least.

    And yea, Mighty and Ray are just diet Sonic and Tails. I feel like Archie did enough to make them somewhat distinctive, but obviously Sega aren't gonna borrow from an American comic ever.

    I feel like Fang has plenty to offer as a minor antagonist tho.


    I dunno, I just hate this feeling that the series doesn't want to embrace its entire history. Bridging old and new concepts is one way of quelling some (but not all) fan discontent, what's old is new again and all.


    Oh well.
     
  2. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    As much as it may be somewhat frustrating or annoying, ultimately I think the separation is for the best... as long as it's actually kept separated. Classic Sonic simply being modern Sonic's younger self is really dumb and makes no sense. In my opinion Generations' and Forces' stories (regarding classic Sonic's involvement) should both be entirely ignored going forward, and as long as Sonic's classic and modern designs never appear alongside each other in the same story again, there won't be an issue.

    What I do want to see is more stuff with the classic characters that isn't just merchandising. Make more classic style comics, or more classic animations, etc. If Sonic Team wants the "classic universe" characters to be distinct from the primary modern continuity, fine. Just keep using them in new products.
     
  3. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
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    You know, if you lengthen the legs and change the color of the eyes, you have Modern Mighty and Modern Ray with little effort.
     
  4. Time to derail the convo with a random ass shower thought. Everyone's birthdays are the date their debut games were released, yeah? Is Espio, Vector, and Charmy's birthday the date of Chaotix's release, or the date of Heroes's release lol? XD
     
  5. Roller

    Roller

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    Heroes' for sure. Knuckles Chaotix isn't real* and can't hurt you.
     
  6. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Even the Simpsons has done a Generations before:

    [​IMG]
     
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I fail to see how. Not only is it the literal case, but his design looks like a younger Sonic would be anyway.

    Out of curiosity, was there anything officially and expressly stating Sonic's age before Sonic Jam, which can be taken as the set up for Sonic Adventure since Sonic World was the proto-Sonic Adventure, or the "Original Story" documents, which had him at 18 so, y'know, not quite canonical any more?
     
  8. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Sonic Generations' position that the classic designs are the younger versions doesn't make sense if you take it literally. Classic Tails and Modern Tails are both 8 years old, but their voices are different. Modern Tails is slightly taller than the teenage Classic Sonic. The middle aged Dr. Eggman also had a growth spurt between the two time periods. Sonic's eyelids changed colour somehow. Sonic became a different shade of blue. Sonic and Tails' eyes went from not having irises to having irises.

    If you take the design differences literally, then the alternate dimensions explanation makes more sense. The "younger versions" explanation works as a bit of fun for the real world audience, but only if you don't take the design changes literally.

    That's misleading. It didn't "have him at 18".

     
  9. RDNexus

    RDNexus

    Member
    Parallel realities work better than time gaps ^^"
    Also works better on the whole "sealed characters" thing.
     
  10. The only reason why there's sealed characters now is because of the parallel realities shtick lmao.

    Interactions like Fang + Rouge will never happen now, whereas before there was actually a chance.
     
  11. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Seeing how the pre-Forces games were made under the assumption that they took place in a single timeline and the modern games referenced the classic games, that's a highly debatable statement.
     
  12. Pengi

    Pengi

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    No, it's the opposite. Iizuka said he didn't plan on ever bringing them back, until Sonic Mania Plus gave them a reason to do so. He said back in 2011 that they don't use the pre-Sonic Adventure characters (Fang, Bark, Ray) anymore. Now that they're making Classic Sonic products, there's a venue for those characters to be used again.
     
  13. Pre or post gens?
     
  14. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    It's only the literal case in the sense that, out of universe, Sonic used to look one way and now looks different, which has nothing to do with in universe canon. Making classic Sonic into modern Sonic's younger self makes no sense because the design changes and age modifications were entirely out of universe retcons. In Sonic Adventure we get a flashback from Amy and both her and Sonic have their modern designs in the flashback. That's how it was before Generations muddied the waters.

    The Sonic Jam character profiles were originally from the Sonic 3 promo video to my knowledge. (at 30 seconds for Sonic, 4:10 for Tails, and 4:36 for Knuckles)



    So the ages seen in Jam were officially decided upon at least by 1994.
     
  15. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

    My name's Martin Member
    Oh, come on, everyone knows classic Sonic is about three months younger than modern Sonic. :V
     
  16. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I honestly don't see them making new models for flashbacks lasting, what, a minute before they're done? Especially on something where space was a premium and they were rushed to get it released. I should also point out the flashbacks make use of zones from Sonic Adventure, so unless they're retconning Little Planet to look like Windy Valley and the Egg Carrier as well...

    I should also point out the classic designs were used in Sonic Adventure: you have the obvious case of the Casinopolis:
    [​IMG]

    The slightly less obvious in the 1-up icon:
    [​IMG]

    And the relatively subtle use in the Robotnik decal scattered around:
    [​IMG]

    So it's hardly like they were abandoned by Sonic Team outright. I don't know who was forbidding the Archie series from using the Classic designs, but I don't think it was them...
     
  17. shilz

    shilz

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    Whatever I don't lose interest in.
    I feel like their appearance in Mania just further seals their fate, which makes me prefer the term dead characters since that's a more apt description. Sure, we might get some kinda merch of Mighty and Ray in balls for some reason, and art featuring Honey the cat... but that's it. There's no game appearances, there's *occasional* appearances in anniversary comics published via IDW, but that's really all since their free pass for being grandfathered from the earlier incarnation of the Archie comics expired.
    This makes an awkward situation where anybody BUT the people calling the shots can figure out how to use these characters, because they either refuse to do so or personally do not see how it can happen - so the shot called is that it's never to be done, even with sound reasoning or intent, quite possibly because they became more valuable as merchandisable nostalgia assets. This is ironically almost the exact same purpose they serve appearing next to the modern characters in Archie, but at least there it was effective and less souless.
     
  18. Pengi

    Pengi

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    That's poor reasoning. Sonic Mania Plus didn't "further seal their fate" as "dead characters". Sonic Mania Plus is the game that brought Ray and Mighty back as playable characters. It's the reason they appeared in YouTube cartoons. It's the reason they appeared in the 30th anniversary comics. It's the reason they show up in art on social media. It's the reason you can buy Mighty the Armadillo plush toys and action figures. These two characters have never had a higher profile than they do right now.

    With the sole exception of the Archie comic, which had been running since 1992, Ray, Mighty, Fang, Bark and Bean weren't getting used at all prior to their revival in Mania/Mania Plus. Iizuka did not want to use them. They were off limits. They didn't fit into their current vision of the Sonic series.

    With the revival of the Classic Sonic brand, there is now a place for them, where there wasn't before.
     
  19. I think the logic is that we want them to exist somewhere beyond just branding and merchandise, which seems to be the end goal for Classic Sonic with there being no plans for a Mania sequel.


    So it makes them feel less like characters part of the same universe and just a cynical marketing ploy by Sega.
     
  20. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Iizuka is open to more Classic Sonic. Earlier this year he told Retro Gamer:

    There's no Sonic Mania 2 in development right now. Sonic Origins is the Classic Sonic release for 2022. Hopefully Sega will wise up and commission a new Classic Sonic game after that.

    Regardless, Sonic Mania hasn't decreased the chances of Ray and Mighty appearing in "Modern Sonic" games. There was a 0% chance of that happening, with or without Sonic Mania. Iizuka's Sonic Team isn't interested in a Modern Mighty or a Modern Ray. Modern Sonic already has a bigger cast than they know what to do with. When they barely even know what to do with Tails, Knuckles and Amy in recent games, what use are they going to have for Ray and Mighty?