The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    21 vote(s)
    19.8%
  2. I hate it

    38 vote(s)
    35.8%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    16 vote(s)
    15.1%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    31 vote(s)
    29.2%
  1. Nicely done! Good call on separating the Game Gear titles too, as I know attempting to integrate them is like the leading cause of headaches in the world today. I am curious to see where you would have placed Sonic the Fighters, or rather to which timeline divide you were leaning toward. As we've speculated before, having Sonic the Fighters follow Sonic 4's second episode would make enough sense, although it is possible that it wouldn't transition perfectly into Adventure. Putting it after 3D Blast seems harmless enough to me however.
     
  2. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Thanks!

    About Sonic the Fighters... I would put it on the same branch as Knuckles Chaotix, 3D Blast and Sonic R (the dead timeline). This would make sense from the point of view of the release dates and of the importance of the game in the current franchise canon (virtually no importance at all). We're probably never going to see any sequel to the events of Sonic the Fighters.

    While it fits reasonably well after Sonic 4, on the other hand I don't think it fits all that well after all. It would be a Classic Sonic game after the events of a Modern Sonic game (somewhat Modern). Also, it's possible that one day SEGA decides to present a sequel (and ending) to the events of Sonic 4, which would break this fit for good.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
  3. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    To be fair, they're mostly standalone. It's only really Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (8-Bit) and Sonic Triple Trouble that cause issues with integration.

    The former's story has Tails a friend to Sonic, making it post-Sonic the Hedgehog 2 (Mega Drive), yet uses an 'older' Sonic robot than Metal Sonic and Mecha Sonic from the Mega Drive game and Sonic doesn't use his spin-dash. I'd honestly say that the Mecha Sonic is a different line to Metal Sonic, and the 8-Bit Mecha Sonic is actually the successor to the 16-Bit Mecha Sonic, where it was deliberately designed to try and make it smaller and more manurable after the big, clunky original. Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles' Mecha Sonic is the subsequent successor that balances both designs. As for lack of spin-dash, simply gameplay, since Sonic's abilities come and go, unless we want to complain about Sonic doesn't have the Insta-Shield any more?

    The latter's story is the big issue, and it's mostly from me and my honest opinion it's a prequel/interquel? to Sonic the Hedgehog 3, and depicts a plot between the manual's stories:
    • Death Egg crashes, Knuckles 'learns' from Robotnik Sonic is a villain.
    • Sonic and Tails realise the Death Egg has crashed down on Angel Island and go to stop him.
    To me, it can go:
    • Death Egg crashes, Knuckles 'learns' from Robotnik Sonic is a villain.
    • Knuckles goes to pre-empt Sonic from gaining the Chaos Emeralds, but backs down and leaves back to Angel Island.
    • Sonic and Tails realise the Death Egg has crashed down on Angel Island and go to stop him.
    Can, as in it's an option, but I understand some would very much disagree. Honestly, perhaps you could say the Knuckles of Sonic Triple Trouble that we fight is the Mecha Knuckles of Sonic Advance in its disguise, since apparently Robotnik was working on it even back during Sonic the Hedgehog 3, and the one we rescue is the actual Knuckles who was otherwise caught before the game.

    Both are valid interpretations, though one requires a bit of a handwave on the matter, since it lack any evidence: as far as Sonic Triple Trouble seems concerned, it was just normal Knuckles.

    Otherwise, excellent work on that timeline once more, raphael_fc!
     
  4. Childish

    Childish

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    You forgot to include sonic school house. It goes in the mania time line, as after escaping white space egg man goes and gets his teaching degree.

    Other than that obvious flaw, you did an excellent job on this. I would also include an BS (before sonic timeline) condensing all the ancient civilisations that exist.
     
  5. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Thank you all!

    I think the 3 branches in the classic timeline are the best way to organize it, because that's really how the games were developed.

    Originally, Knuckles Chaotix was the sequel to Sonic 3K. But the modern era pretended it never existed (see: Sonic Heroes) and then Sonic 4 came to be considered the transition between classic and modern. After that, classic and modern were completely separated, and Sonic Mania was developed as the sequel to Sonic 3K in the classic era. Historically, there are indeed 3 sequels that shouldn't mix.

    The fitting of Sonic Chronicles into the late modern era was a happy accident. In the classic era I established that Phantom Ruby's appearance split the timeline in two. So, for consistency, the same thing needs to happen in the modern era. And that is the only possible place in the entire timeline to fit Sonic Chronicles without causing any problems, and it is an interesting position. Both Sonic Chronicles and Sonic Forces show Eggman taking over the planet, and these two games would run parallel in different timelines.
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
  6. Pengi

    Pengi

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    I don't think there's anything that prevents Chaotix from taking place after Sonic Mania.
     
  7. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Now that Classic and Modern are separated, indeed there is nothing preventing it. I was talking from a historical point of view.

    It looks like Sega doesn't want anything with Knuckles Chaotix, and might want something with Mania someday. So it's also safer to place Knuckles Chaotix in a dead timeline.
     
  8. Revisiting the Metal Sonic boss, and especially the Giga Metal encounter in Plus, indicates that Chaotix would've already happened.
     
  9. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    That's probably just a nostalgic throwback. Just like in the first battle against Metal Sonic those little Sonic robots appear, and that doesn't mean the Game Gear games belong to the Sonic Mania timeline.
     
  10. Pengi

    Pengi

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    There's no reason the giant blue Metal Sonic can't predate the giant red Metal Sonic.
     
  11. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Well, if the Phantom Ruby is just illusionary, it'd seem more like Metal Sonic used his memories of a transformation, rather than making up a new one that he randomly becomes.

    But both ways are valid.
     
  12. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Yeah, it could be the other way around. It could be the case that Metal Sonic wishes to be that giant robot and the Phantom Ruby has fulfilled the wish. And after that, in Knuckles Chaotix, Eggman was inspired by the events of Sonic Mania to recreate the giant robot.
     
  13. Yeah true, it could just be a dream of Metal's. I'd still rather see Mania as following all of the Genesis era games.
     
  14. Pengi

    Pengi

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    The Hard-Boiled Heavies created new forms at the start of the game.
     
  15. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Well, not really, but fair counter, they do appear new to Sonic, Tails and Knuckles.

    And the not really is that they created new forms. They don't, they just appear as such.
     
  16. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Do we have confirmation that the situations that occurred in Sonic Mania were illusory? I mean, using information from Sonic Mania itself and not from Sonic Forces.
     
  17. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Yeah, the Knuckles cutscene: it shows the what-should-be-Hard-Boiled-Heavies Eggrobos simply flying off with the Phantom Ruby.

    [​IMG]

    The Phantom Ruby even flickers, indicating it just triggered. At this point, Sonic and Tails have seen the Hard-Boiled Heavies, so...
     
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  18. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    I'd argue Metal Sonic hasn't things such as feelings or wishes, but the OVA and Sonic Heroes might have something to say. I still think that, back in the classic days, Metal Sonic and Eggrobo (the one in Knuckles' story) were meant to be pure machines, not "full characters".
     
  19. Childish

    Childish

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    What was the first time metal was shown as sentient?

    Also potentially sonic 4 could take place after mania right? Unless I'm being stupid I can't see how this contradicts anything. Another idea is that chaotix also takes place in a similar time frame as sonic 4 as they both line up fairly well.
     
  20. Xiao Hayes

    Xiao Hayes

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    I think the OVA was the first time Metal Sonic showed some kind of "soul", so to speak, and it was in Heroes where he directly had the good old doppelganger/clone syndrome, hence why I cited those. If there was any other in-game reference before Heroes, I missed it, and the OVA is non-canon, so I don't know if that was already in the Sonic Bible back in the classic times or it really became official thanks to Heroes.