The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

Where do you stand on the split timeline?

  1. Makes sense

    21 vote(s)
    19.8%
  2. I hate it

    38 vote(s)
    35.8%
  3. It's alternate dimensions, not split timelines

    16 vote(s)
    15.1%
  4. Doesn't matter either way

    31 vote(s)
    29.2%
  1. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    This falls into that problem of Sonic 4 being in an awkward position for being classic and modern at the same time. But as far as it goes, Sonic 4 is the transition to Modern Sonic, while Sonic Mania simply doesn't belong in that timeline, being an adventure exclusive to Classic Sonic. So by that logic, Sonic 4 and Sonic Mania can't (or shouldn't) be on the same timeline.

    Also, Sonic 4's description says: "Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Episode I picks up right where Sonic and Knucklesā„¢ left off". If this is to be followed to the letter, then not only Sonic Mania but also Knuckles Chaotix could not precede Sonic 4.
     
  2. David The Lurker

    David The Lurker

    For some mysterious reason... Administrator
    I dunno, I'd say that Chaotix would have to take place before Mania, if only because of the Metal Sonic boss room that exists in Mania:

    metal.png

    You have Metal Sonic, sitting in the middle. But on either side, you have a broken version of Metal. Two tubes haunting you with the past. One of them has to be the Metal Sonic from Sonic CD, whose face definitely flew off when he hit the wall at the end of his boss fight. But the other? Well, the only other time we see Metal get destroyed (which would work in the regular timeline, sorry Triple Trouble) is Chaotix. Two intense fights with Metal Sonic, both ending in his destruction. Games like Fighters and R have him defeated, but not destroyed. They make it a point to show Metal Sonic still fully operational in the credits of Sonic the Fighters!

    I have thoughts about the nature of Sonic's "split timeline" and if it even works. I know Classic belongs to "his own dimension," but I still find it pointless if the only game that doesn't take place in the overall timeline is Mania, especially if nothing in that game is reliant on the timeline being changed. If anything, I see Chaotix, Mania, and Sonic 4 all being able to work together just fine.

    If you say Sonic 4 is the follow up to CD, and that Metal just didn't exist in-between, then Episode Metal retcon's what happens to Metal. He's in one piece, face fully attached. He's been defeated, he's not able to move, but what we saw in CD just couldn't happen. But if you include the other games? His CPU is recovered by Eggman, later used in the creation of Metal Sonic Kai, who also gets destroyed. So Eggman builds Metal Sonic for a third time, who you see in Mania. Sonic is able to defeat him in Stardust Speedway, the robot falling off screen in a very similar fashion, but remaining in one piece. Where he sits until Eggman is able to collect his creation during the events of Sonic the Hedgehog 4.

    Mania prevents a retcon, and answers the question of "what's going on with Metal." I'm sure this wasn't fully intended, but it works. Not to mention, there's only so much faith I can put in the idea that Sonic 4 "picks up right where Sonic & Knuckles left off," considering the original website to Sonic 4 also said that Knuckles' story in S3&K took place at the same time as Sonic's. That slug line for Sonic 4 is to sell it more than anything, and if there are games which can happen between Sonic 3 and Sonic 4, I don't see any reason to not let them happen. Besides, wouldn't Sonic Pocket Adventure be the true transition between Classic and Modern? We get to see Eggman change his clothes in that game!
     
  3. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I'm totally fine with the idea that all these games could belong to the same timeline. I don't like to decanonize games (except those that are clearly spin-offs), and too many timelines can make the organization seem unnecessarily confusing.

    Still, I believe that the division into three branches is the closest to how SEGA sees these games, without having to completely separate Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic.
     
  4. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    And thus, I quietly drag up the two pieces of my timeline to display that exact concept of a single, overall timeline, regardless of SEGA's inanity.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    I should probably get around to that third piece at some point..
     
  5. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Why is Sonic Advance before Sonic Adventure 2? I just placed them in chronological order.

    EDIT: From "chronological order" I mean the release dates.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  6. Pengi

    Pengi

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    It's super awkward having anything between Sonic 2 and Sonic 3, but why would Sonic Labyrinth and Tails' Skypatrol take place in that timeframe when they were both released in 1995?

    Also, in SA2 Tails has a Chaos Emerald that was awarded to him for saving Station Square in SA1. In Sonic Advance the Special Stages and Chaos Emeralds are in the edge of space.
     
  7. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Sonic Advance is basically Sonic Adventure-lite, so I kept them around the same place. I also think the end of Sonic Shuffle can lead into it, since they're last seen on a palmtree beach.

    No Knuckles.

    Was it awarded before or after Station Square flooded and Perfect Chaos ate all seven gems?
     
  8. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I particularly don't think the ending of one game represents the beginning of another (speaking of any games now), unless that's explicitly stated, Like Colors --> Generations. It has to be taken into account that there are other adventures between one game and another, and we just don't experience them.

    For example, Sonic was beating badniks in Green Hill when Team Eater kidnapped him, but it's virtually impossible that Sonic came from Sonic 1. Another example is the beginning of Sonic Unleashed, where Sonic and Eggman were fighting, and that definitely was not the end of Sonic Chronicles. And iirc, Sonic Chronicles itself also begins with an ongoing battle as well.
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Of course, but I still like to put it in as a connection, simply because I like how it looks, since Sonic Shuffle's ending has all four characters running along that beach.

    Basically, more headcanon, and Sonic Advance would be near Sonic Adventure anyway.
     
  10. big smile

    big smile

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    I really like this theory. I just assumed that Metal Sonic had been on Little Planet all this time. So when we see him in Mania he had rebuilt himself together with clones of himself that were in tubes as they hadn't worked out (I took the little Silver Sonics to be his prototype attempts at cloning). But I like the idea that the tubes might in fact contain his past defeated forms. And I guess the Ruby explains how he got back to Little Planet. Neat theory.
     
  11. Pengi

    Pengi

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    That's irrelevant. Knuckles isn't in Sonic Unleashed or Sonic 4 either.

    After. The yellow Chaos Emerald was with Knuckles on Angel Island before then.

    It doesn't make much sense, but Sonic Team chose to make a continuity connection between SA1 and SA2 to explain why Tails has the yellow Chaos Emerald. Putting Sonic Advance between the two only loosens that connection.

    In Sonic Advance the Chaos Emeralds are in space, so that's a loose (and almost certainly unintentional) connection to their location at the end of SA2.
     
  12. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Indeed, but at that point Knuckles was the new, badass character that was being put into everything. Plus, it only brings Knuckles off Angel Island once after Sonic the Hedgehog 3.

    Indeed, we don't know how long after he got it. So it could be it was found in Station Square after the events of Sonic Advance.
     
  13. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Does everyone agree that Sonic and the Secret Rings (2007) must happen before Sonic Riders (2006)? In Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic did not know the Arabian Nights, while in Sonic Riders he recognized a magic carpet as something that should only exist in fiction.

    I mean, considering these games are canon. Apparently Sonic and the Secret Rings is.
     
  14. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Hm, that's a fair point. Welp, that third piece of the timeline's not seeing the light of day for now, I need to redo it to change that around.

    You miss one detail and a third of your timeline falls apart.

    Can we also agree the Sonic Rivals games must take place post-Sonic Rush, since Robotnik is actively working against Nega in Sonic Rivals, while they had a fairly cordial relationship in Sonic Rush?
     
  15. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Yes, it's the only way to make sense. Sonic Rush and Sonic Rush Adventure both need to come before Sonic Rivals.

    Maybe Eggman Nega was lying during the Rush series, to try to help Eggman and thus prevent the name from falling into disgrace in the future, but then he got tired of the losses and decided to fuck it up in Rivals.
     
  16. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    I'm of the opinion the Sonic Rush games were him trying to give Robotnik a win with the plausible deniability of an alternate universe counterpart helping him, and he decided 'screw it, he's too much of a screw up, I'll do it myself!'

    And then he's locked away in an alternate dimension to die.
     
  17. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    Most games of the modern era have nothing relevant to determine their position in the timeline other than the release date. At least as far as I know.

    There's this magic carpet thing, there's this Rush versus Rivals conundrum... and that's it. The coherence of the Tornado plane appearances simply doesn't exist, so it doesn't serve as a basis.

    Well, there's a detail that I racked my brain trying to understand. There's a monster called Ifrit in another dimension in Sonic Rivals 2, and there's another monster called Ifrit in Sonic and the Secret Rings. I reread the dialogues hoping Sonic would say something like "I've heard that name before" or something like that, but I couldn't figure out which game should come first. Maybe in Japanese it is clearer?
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2021
  18. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Ifrit is an actual mythological demon of Islamic lore, so it's likely just supposed to be referring to that rather than any connection between the two.

    What's interesting is that Sonic and the Secret Rings' Ifrit is called "Ye Condemed Arm of Iblis". Though that's likely since Iblis is Satan.
     
  19. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    So in Sonic's lore, maybe Rivals' Ifrit and 06' Iblis got their names because people on Earth were inspired by the myths of the Arabian Nights to name them, not knowing that the myths were real within the book.

    But I'd still like to know if there's a way to ensure which game should come first on the timeline, regardless of release date.
     
  20. Pengi

    Pengi

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    Sonic Labyrinth was released after Chaotix, Sonic Advance was released after Sonic Adventure 2. Shifting them backwards loosens the continuity between Sonic 2 and 3 and loosens the continuity between SA1 and SA2. Nothing is gained from shoe-horning their stories between games where they don't cleanly fit.