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The Sonic the Hedgehog Continuity Thread of Love and Timelines

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by dredd, Jul 6, 2020.

  1. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Pretty sure Naka never viewed the games as taking place in two worlds. There was that interview from the early 2010s in which he was asked where all the humans that started appearing from SA1 onward came from and he explained that the old games took place in islands, and the story later moved to places like Station Square. No dual world mention.


    Edit - found the interview:

    "Sonic initially had critters and robots but Sonic Adventure have introduced humans suddenly. Why have you decided to add them?

    Naka: Action in Sonic's universe unfolded on Christmas Island from the very beginning, and accidentally things have happened the way there were only animals and robots in there. And later when Sonic made it to usual mega polis in Adventure, that's where he met humans."
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2021
  2. Beamer the Meep

    Beamer the Meep

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    While it's a similar situation in the main series, I do think we need to keep in mind that Naka-san was discussing the Sonic Movie in particular and not the current direction the series is going in. Sonic X had a similar premise of two different worlds and Naka was a producer on that series. He's gone on record as calling it the best Sonic series to date series due to how much input Sonic Team had in the creative direction. I don't think it's a simple matter of him disliking the two worlds concept as it is him disliking the execution of the Sonic Movie as opposed to Sonic X.
     
  3. Linkabel

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    I mention that one in my post, but yeah it could be that he didn't consider the games to follow that particular canon.

    But I think as you start looking at everything we know then I do think that sometime after SA2 they did, but they just don't want to complicate themselves by showing it in the games.

    It wouldn't surprise me that was the original plan because Ohshima was still involved with Sonic Adventure.

    But maybe they decide to change the canon as they were preparing the "year of Sonic" projects (X, Heroes, Battle, Mcdonald promotion) for whatever reason.

    Though perhaps he still prefers that original canon explanation so he answered with that?

    It's one of those things that needs a clarification.
     
  4. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Yuji Naka mentioned in a Russian interview that the games take place on Earth, and you can pretty much connect all the Yuji Naka Era main games as being on Earth.

    Sonic Adventure established Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles, Sonic the Hedgehog 2 by extension, and Sonic the Hedgehog CD took place on the same planet.
    Sonic Adventure 2 established that yes, this planet is Earth.
    Sonic Heroes, while more standalone, has a Central City newspaper clipping, and Shadow the Hedgehog establishes Central City as being on Earth.
    Sonic the Hedgehog (2006) has humans and G.U.N. involvement, so safe bet it was on Earth.

    Really, the only one you could make any reasonable argument for would be Sonic the Hedgehog (Mega Drive), and that's less evidence and more "we can't really say since it's not established as being on any particular world."

    Sonic Unleashed is where things get messy, the Transition Era was coming in with new ideas, and then the Iizuka Era happened and Two Worlds were suddenly a thing from Sonic Colours onwards.

    As for Sonic X, while Naka had right to final say, that doesn't mean he was constantly invoking it and directly controlling every aspect. Unless we want to blame him for Chris Thorndyke being shoved into plot critical roles like that Shadow scene on the ARK? He was the one with final say...
     
  5. Blue Spikeball

    Blue Spikeball

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    Sorry. I thought you were talking about a different interview, as you were implying they retconned the lore circa 2001-2003, and the interview was from 2010-2011.

    I don't see much reason to assume Naka viewed the dual world thing as game canon. Flynn might claim that Iizuka claims that it was Naka's idea. But nothing in the Naka games implies it, and Naka's word from that relatively recent interview still goes against it.

    I don't know. Maybe Iizuka is misremembering. He may be unintentionally connecting the old talks about Sonic X's dual world when this one was conceptualized with the game lore. But when it comes to discussing Naka's view, I'll take the word from the horse's mouth.
     
    Last edited: May 20, 2021
  6. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    No one is saying Naka call the shots on 100% on everything in Sonic X.

    But I'm willing to bet the two worlds was something that came from Sonic Team.

    Sonic X probably had restrictions akin to some of the ones that we see in the IDW comics.

    So yeah, the anime staff had the liberty to shove Chris into plot critical roles or change Shadow's arc after waking up after the events of SA2, but not to destroy Angel Island or give Knuckles a Super form.

    I really doubt the two worlds idea came from the anime staff because it's so drastically lore changing that I don't see Sonic Team approving it.
     
  7. Blue Spikeball

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    Naka, Ohshima and Sonic Team were credited as the Production Directors of the OVA, and that adaptation had a very different take on Sonic's world too. It was called Planet Freedom, half of it was made up of a floating continent (Land of the Sky), and the other half (Land of Darkness) was either abandoned or under Eggman's control. The environments in both also implied that the planet was a post-apocalyptic Earth.

    Doesn't mean that the games were ever meant to take place on Planet Freedom.
     
  8. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    True, but is it that crazy that they decided to keep things closer to what they had in 2003 than in 1996?

    The scope of the projects also come into play:

    One was two OVAs that took some years to get to the West versus an anime series that was commissioned specifically because Sega/Sonic Team wanted something akin to the international success the Pokémon anime series had.

    It doesn't shock me that they would want the latter to be closer to the world from the games.
     
  9. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Yet between the two, Sonic the Hedgehog (OVA) seems closer to the games...

    Like, not even the games of the time. Sonic X is just weird in some aspects. Like, why does a single Ring, the baseline collectable in the games, turn Sonic into a pinball of utter death? And it adapts three games, but in heavily altered formats...
     
  10. Dek Rollins

    Dek Rollins

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    Except every game from the time Naka was still involved contradicts the two worlds concept. It doesn't even really matter who came up with the concept used in X, that was most likely just a scenario created for the show itself.

    So if both are contradictory when compared not only to the games but also to Naka's statements about the games, why should we take one as gospel over the other? Just because Sonic Team enjoyed the creative control they had on the production of Sonic X doesn't mean they wanted that to take the place of the game canon.
     
  11. Linkabel

    Linkabel

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    At that point this is falling into personal preferences.

    I do prefer the OVA, and I do agree shoehorning rings into X or even the movie is silly. But Sonic X is supposed to resemble the games at the time.

    The OVA is guilty of this as well so not even sure where this is coming from. I know even as a kid I was "wtf is a land of Darkness, why is South Island in the sky and how come Knuckles is not protecting the ME?"

    I'll argue that even the current games don't fit the Two Worlds canon.

    But, here's the thing I mentioned pages ago.

    It's clear Sonic Team doesn't let continuity hold them down when it comes to the games.

    For example, moon is destroyed in one game, and somehow moon is alright in the next game. Classic Sonic is a young version of the current Sonic, then in the next game he's from another dimension.

    Saying that, it doesn’t mean Sonic Team doesn't have a series bible that explains things.

    Some things they just don't show in the games and some they do. Some things they just decide to change because it's convenient and serves their new project.

    And when it comes to certain projects that are more story driven that they have control then they make mandates (so something like X or IDW).

    Is it possible that all the Naka games are supposed to take place on earth and Iizuka changed that when he took over Sonic Team? Or the silly reason that Iizuka "misinterpreted" something Naka told him and he ran with that?

    Of course it's possible. Though, is it also possible he came up with that lore change during his latter time in Sonic Team, and for whatever reason did not bring it up in that interview? I'll argue yes.

    This is one of the subjects where I think it has reached a dead end and the only way out is asking Naka and Iizuka specifically about where the two worlds concept came from and when it was implemented.

    Edit: Had to add this because I'm not saying to bother them on social media about it.
     
  12. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Honestly, we only need to ask Naka, since the claim is he is the source of the Two Worlds Canon. Almost tempted to simply politely ask him, since I know some people who can write Japanese, it would be easier for him...

    Honestly, I just wish one of the rereleases of Sonic Adventure 2 added a scene of Sonic Chaos Controlling the Moon to be whole once more. It would save so much hassle.
     
  13. Suddenly jumping back into the chaos emeralds topic- In #262 of the Archie comics, Antione directly specifies he'd give the green emerald to Bunnie since it would match her eyes. 20210522_011843.jpg Not really one of the games though :p
     
  14. Childish

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    Shadow does famously refer to one of the emeralds as the "damn fourth chaos emerald" implying that the characters do actually distinguish different emeralds.
     
  15. SuperSnoopy

    SuperSnoopy

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    Slice of life visual novel, coming soon...?
    Maybe you’re just joking but the reason he refers to it as the 4th Chaos Emerald (*damn 4th chaos emerald, to be script accurate:V) is because it’s the 4th one he has to get, not because it’s the "official" 4th chaos emerald.
     
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  16. Childish

    Childish

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    Yeah I was joking but I do find it interesting that from memory every other time it's always "a chaos emerald" or "the chaos emerald".
     
  17. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

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    Could there be some sort of official timeline of events in this new upcoming encyclopedia?

    upload_2021-5-27_14-51-0.png
     

    Attached Files:

  18. Childish

    Childish

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    potentially mandated to fuck or copied from a google search of "sonic timeline theory" probably yes
     
  19. BlackHole

    BlackHole

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    Clearly, it's my timeline and they've stolen it from me. I will have recompense!

    But seriously, it's more likely to just cover all the games and things within them, while putting everything in release order rather than any actual timeline.

    Be hilarious if there was one and it confirmed Sonic Triple Trouble as a prequel to Sonic the Hedgehog 3, though.
     
  20. raphael_fc

    raphael_fc

    Overthinking Sonic timelines. Member
    I updated my Sonic timeline, made in this post here.

    I adopted some of the suggestions that were given, such as:
    - Sonic 4 is not from the Sonic CD's bad future, but the good future;
    - Game Gear titles belong to another universe from the beginning (hence they don't even appear on the timeline);
    - The sequence of appearance of Sonic's and Tails' planes was no longer considered a criterion of order of the games;
    - I removed the excess of informative texts, leaving only the essentials;

    And I want to make it clear that:
    - I didn't adopt the complete separation between Classic Sonic and Modern Sonic, and preferred to follow with the Generations theory;
    - I didn't include Team Sonic Racing (and the other ones from this series), Sonic the Fighters, Sonic Pocket Adventure and Sonic Runners - although I used an information about the wisps from the latter.
    - Sonic 06, Sonic Chronicles, Knuckles Chaotix and a few more games were considered "canon but not anymore", ie they existed at some point but now their events have died.

    Here are the 3 eras:

    CLASSIC
    #01- CLASSIC ERA TIMELINE 2021.png

    ADVENTURE
    #02- ADVENTURE ERA TIMELINE 2021.png

    MODERN
    #03- MODERN ERA TIMELINE 2021.png
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2021
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