Sonic 3 & Knuckles's levels will undoubtedly clash given the different art styles from Sonic 1, 2, and CD. I'm more concerned about what Chaud and someone else brought up. The background looks great, but the foreground tiles literally look ripped from Sonic & Knuckles and only hastily edited so far to do what they need to do. GHZ has similar issues (Misplaced flowers and palm trees for example). But just looking through that trailer video the foreground is filled with strange piece arrangements, transparency issues, and improper palettes. It's like anything new that they've made so far is great (backgrounds, Mirage Saloon, Studiopolis, and basically all of the sprite work) but anything that was edited from an original source looks slapped together. I have faith that they know what they're doing but I hope they're aware of these things. And if it is in fact because it is from an older build, then I think they should maybe put together a new build to show off, since these things look sloppy. But now they have more time so I bet they'll get to fixing these things. EDIT: After looking at a Sonic 3 Playthough, it's definitely the case that they ripped the tiles as a base and altered the palette slightly. 95% of these issues are present in the original tile set. Honestly I never liked Flying Battery Zone.
It was safe to rule out Sandopolis as soon as Mirage Saloon was revealed. I was really hoping for Lava Reef, which has always been my favourite S&K zone by a mile. I think CD, 3 & Knuckles are all much more deserving of two zones than either of the first two games. Unfortunately, I have a horrible feeling that the first two will be prioritised because muh nostalgia, even after Generations and Sonic 4. I can't see them bringing back Labyrinth or Metropolis. I won't be terribly surprised if Scrap Brain returns as the final level, and Mystic Cave is practically a certainty since there aren't any other strong contenders. The most likely CD zones are Quartz Quadrant and Stardust Speedway, and I'm really hoping to see both of them. Collision Chaos is probably a distant third. Hydrocity and IceCap are the most likely Sonic 3 zones, but as you said they could pick anything that isn't Angel Island. If there's a second Sonic & Knuckles zone, it'll either be Lava Reef or Death Egg.
The reason I think Labyrinth is a valid candidate is because it could be potentially turned into Hydrocity 2.0 aka water level that doesn't suck. Sure that would basically mean a completely new zone with old graphics but that's what Mania is for /> Also Hydrocity is perfect anyway. Really no need to bring it back. I too am disappointed that FB is the S&K level because I think that LR and DE are much better zones. If they really are going to bring back Ice Cap over Hydrocity (the only reason I'm skeptical about that is because of the rumored ongoing music dispute) then it'd be a perfect opportunity to transition it into Flying Battery as it was originally intended.
Everyones raving about the outside background, but I have to give a nod to all the new touches and 3D effects going on in the interior background. It almost reminds me of Egg Utopia now.
I don't want to be a killjoy, but I'm kind of getting worried about this game's progress. We all love Taxman, Stealth and PagodaWest (no one more than I, I created a thread a year ago asking for a Whitehead directed Sonic game), but I think the worries of the game ar getting overlooked by our joy of the team. First of all, the bugs in the prototypes are shoddy and need to be sorted out ASAP. This is a franchise that is notorious for bugs, and we are seeing stuff as shoddy as Sonic going backwards in loops and misplaced tiles for fucks sake. Also, I'm worried that the team are struggling to complete levels and the game is going to be shorter than we all think, probably around 7 or 8 zones. What really bothers me is the lack of features announced. No word so far on 2 player modes, extra features, online, leaderboards, special stages etc. I'm giving this one more of a pass since I know this could be down to marketing, but I don't like the decision to reveal so many stages and absolutely no features. Also a point, I also think the team are overelying on cut content. I really fear that we won't get many zones like Studiopolis but will instead get lots of zones and scenes inspired by cut content. I love cut content, but since the team's own work is so good I wouldn't want it to steal the limelight. I know I sound like a moaning fucker, and I don't want to demoralise the team here; the game still looks great and Im going to immediately buy like 3 copies. But I do think we are mostly overlooking some rather worrying signs. I'm really glad it's delayed to Summer; but honestly I think it might need to be delayed longer.
Hydrocity was easily one of the most well-executed zones in S3&K, but I still feel that it has "Mania Potential" (unlike Marble Garden, which is another of S3&K's most well-executed zones). Just because it was fantastic the first time doesn't mean it can't be made to feel new and interesting all over again. Plus, the music is miles better than Labyrinth's, and honestly does anyone actually want Labyrinth to return? I'm only now starting to realise how much I want two Sonic CD zones, two Sonic 3 zones and two S&K zones. Damn you, unrealistic expectations borne of hype! Speaking of which, I wonder how the devs are handling the pressure of the fan community's obsessively critical and demanding eye? I'm not trying to shit on the fans who nitpick and obsess over detail (since I'm exactly like that), but they have twenty years of collective fan "what if SEGA made another 16-bit Sonic game?" daydreams hanging over them. All the optimism, all the pessimism, all the hype and all the disappointment that's accumulated over the last twenty years - and it's been placed firmly on their shoulders to resolve and live up to. This game will be cathartic for so many people. Do you think this sort of thing is on their minds while they work? Or am I just coming across as condescending? Edit: There's a distinct possibility that the Green Hill 2 footage was taken from the same October build as when Mirage Saloon was revealed. This would mean that there's been about five months of development progress that we haven't seen yet, and probably four or five months to go. As Christian said, there's no point fixing non-gamebreaking bugs in a demo when there's a full game to be made. Assuming we're correct in our understanding that the Hard Boiled Heavies are only for the new zones, that shouldn't be possible. There must be at least five "old" zones and (only) five "new" zones. Even without that, the "game will be longer than Generations" statement should indicate at least ten full zones. We know that special stages are in, and that we haven't seen them yet. We know that Blue Sphere will be making an appearance, but that it's not the main special stage. Beyond that, it's probably just marketing. They have been talking about the "1.5 player mode" lately, and I think it's safe to assume that time attack with online leaderboards will be included, at the very least. Following the reveal of Mirage Saloon, Christian said that it would be the only "new" zone based on an old lost level. The remaining new zones will be genuinely new. I assume that's the kind of thing you're referring to?
Well there's kind of a point. Preview footage shows off the quality of the game. Having misplaced tiles and strange mobius strip glitches looks sloppy. Yes the main game is more important but you should use a better base if one is available. Hell look at the Crash Bandicoot remake that's being made. They put out a new show demo recently and one of the benefits of it was that you could see that things were being fixed and that improvements were being made. We have currently no indication of that, and while we have good reason to put faith in Taxman and Stealth what do people outside of the Sonic community think when they see stuff like this ignored for 6 months? I feel like a new preview build after 6 months isn't asking for a whole lot. I'm not saying they have to make a new build every time they show the game off but the one they're using now isn't doing them any favors. Like there was another video showing off GHZ Act 2 where Sonic jumped through a wall and then got stuck in the floor. I bet that was fixed, but how would be know and what do lesser Sonic fans think of that kind of stuff? Do we really want to see more of Robotnik's Speed traps? EDIT: Agreed with Sparks though I'm really liking the new inside background for Flying Battery. That's part of why its meh foreground conversion disappoints me honestly, the backgrounds are so good! And looking at the footage again you can tell they are starting to do some things with the foreground (mostly on the outside pieces of the ship). I just hope they keep going.
Keep in mind that Mania is a commemorative title, in the same vein as Generations. I would love new and completely unique levels, but for a birthday title it makes perfect sense that they draw heavily on content cut from previous games. In this sense, it is a matter of seeing the game for what it is. That said, in their next game (and I hoping here that this will come because IT HAS TO), no recycled or adapted content, please.
While I have to try and keep a level head and remind myself that Mania is not exempt from criticism, I don't think there's anything to worry about. We've seen two early builds of the game - the announcement build and then another build just a few a few months later. The GHZ2 footage is very likely from the October build, as other have pointed out. The bugs are minor. An animation error in an early build along with some misplaced tiles are absolutely nothing to get worked up about, unless ol' rooftree got you bothered as well. Everything else about length and unannounced features is a bit silly. Unannounced features are just that - we don't know about them. SEGA's kept fairly schtum on Mania, and Aaron has gone on record saying they don't want to reveal too much. Just give it time. With the game being delayed, SEGA's giving the message that they want the game to be as good as possible. It's not being rushed. Anyway, Hardboiled Heavy predictions: Spoiler
I think they have said that the Sonic Mania team is very small. It's probably not time/cost effective to fix all the minor bugs up front while they are still working on the game. I imagine they'll knock out all the minor bugs towards the end. That way, they can make maximum use of their resources on creating new stuff. The fact the Sega hasn't given an exact release date shows that the company is taking this very seriously. Without a date, they don't have to rush things out before they are ready. It's not going to be like Sonic 2006 which could have done with more development time.
They don't think anything, because they don't see this stuff at all. Normies don't notice the tile errors, the misplaced objects, or even half the visible bugs. The bugs that they do notice, they don't commit to memory because they know the game's release is still months away and has yet to go through the main bug-fixing phase that normally happens at the end of development. Now that a new zone has been revealed, I'm sure a new show demo is on its way. They certainly can't keep using the current one since everyone will want to play Flying Battery, and SEGA will want to start ramping up the marketing. Presumably the devs want to show off their hard work and put our fears to rest, as well. Edit: I just want to add that, while I am defending this game quite a bit, I don't see any of the nitpicking/criticism in this thread as illegitimate, and I'm not trying to discourage it at all. The whole reason I made an account was to post some nitpicks in the Green Hill 2 footage. Just expressing my opinion as the thread rolls along~
Ha, forgot about rooftree. But hey, with a small team on their hands it doesn't hurt to have a bunch of OCD Sonic fans playing the QA role and pointing these things out. At least these are more legitimate concerns than green eyes or blue arms. I'm actually shocked that I never noticed Flying Battery's horrendous tile set before. It was really all over the place. "Just throw in some metal pipes and shit whatever." More shame on the Sonic 3 team for that one. "In GHZ Act 2 there's a palm tree trunk floating in mid air, what are we supposed to believe this is some sort of magical tree? I really hope someone go fired for that blunder :v:"
Just to stress my point again: I mean, wow, what's even happening down there? I don't know if it's just my impression, but it looks even more chaotic than in the original. When I get home I'll even replay FB to see if the nostalgia blinded me to this, but I do not remember it being anything in this proportion.
For me it looks like Tails have got enough of Sonic's shit and he's going to just throw him to the spikes.
Agreed with this. The Flying Battery art inconsistencies being found in the trailer particular are really troubling now IMO.
It's like the game is still in development or something. Seriously, stop complaining about stuff being unfinished unless you're actually talking about a game that's meant to be finished rather than stuff in footage of a game still in development. They have up to half a year to finish development, and it's very possible that they already know about most if not all of the stuff you all have been nitpicking throughout this thread and just haven't gotten around to making improvements and fixing bugs. And you know, maybe some of it won't be fixed. Cause commercial games actually need to be finished at some point and they're not going to fix every low priority issue that forums make a big deal out of before launch.
