The motobug sections aren't that interesting. Cool to look at, but not interesting. But by your logic, Super Mario Galaxy shouldn't STILL have Goombas in it. I mean, what's the point, right? :v:. And if Super Sonic is an old asset, then so is Fire Mario, the Varia Suit, etc. etc. Some things are just series staples buddy. Besides Game Land, there's nothing oldschool about this game. Heck, the Game Land stages are only vaguely similar to the retro stages. Even still, the Game Land stages lack any of the original gimmicks, and are traversed completely differently. There's a difference between throw backs and shameless plugs. And about that Super Sonic thing...They did that with Secret Rings and Black Knight. Nobody liked either. Not exactly the same, but some things you just don't tamper with.
I wouldn't be against the idea of scrapping Fire Mario and the Goombas for something new for a change. Super Mario Land 2 did it (sort of), and the Galaxy games also gave us Ice Mario, which provided some fun new level ideas. Play as Super Sonic in levels Yellow Springs are back Sonic can now go underwater again, complete with classic drowning theme Most of the game is 2D And not a single new enemy was to be found. Remember me? (While I don't have the maps at hand, there are also levels closely resembling Marble, Labyrinth, and Scrap Brain Zone as well). Who says there has to be a new Super form? I personally thought Excalibur Sonic looked pretty cool, but the fact that he and Darkspines basically both served the same purpose as Super Sonic doesn't really help the lack of excitement. Not to mention, there were many other things that turned people away from the games.
Oh come on now you say that like these are bad things. That and Yellow Springs work completely differently in this game than they did in the classic Sonic games. If anything they work more like the blue springs from Knuckles Chaotix. Granted, yes it does kind of suck that they're weren't any new enemies, but this is the first time in a while we got some classic enemies in 3D. And while many of them serve the same function as many of the Sonic Unleashed enemies, I'd rather see a Crabmeat skin on that Rocket Launcher enemy than the Unleashed design again.
Wisps? - Being Super Sonic is old school? Then so is Starman, Screw Attack....wait - Oh noes there are yellow springs! They should be blue! or purple! Really? The color of the springs counts as "oldschool"? Even if they function in a level design almost entirely differently? - Oh noes! Underwater levels! Swimming! Wait...could Sonic swim in the classics? :shh: - Donkey Kong Country Returns says hi. - I'll give you this, but I'll also add that it doesn't even matter. This counts as vague similarity, considering the lack of gimmicks and whatnot. Once again, if Super Sonic is to be considered "oldschool", then so are staples in other series. Hookshot? Been there done that. Gravity Suit to get through the underwater areas? Puh-lease, try something else now. Fire Mario? Again? Why couldn't they just replace him with Ice Mario? I don't wanna burn stuff up anymore!
They're not necessarily bad, but I'd rather they serve some purpose other than being there just for nostalgia or lack of ideas. The yellow springs are used in an effective new way, I'll give you that, but a lot of the other stuff just seems like a blatant cop out. I get that they want to give the fans what they want, but there are better ways of leaving an impact than letting memories from the "glory days" do all the dirty work. It's only a minor complaint, but it just feels like unnecessary fanservice to me. I think the Wisps are arguably the best part of the game. Unfortunately, their placement seems very out of the way most of the time, and they only really seem useful for collecting the Red Rings. The DS version however allowed players to use their abilities more thoroughly by making them required to finish certain acts. I feel as though Sonic Team was afraid that this would be received poorly like all of their other "forced" ideas, but it seems like it would have actually benefitted this game. I just want to clarify something. Donkey Kong Country Returns is not the successor to Donkey Kong 64 or any other 3D game. It's in the same boat as Colors as far as being a modern game (it's a reboot, not a throwback, debate this with any DK expert), but it wasn't preceded by a game like Unleashed. The majority of Unleashed however was 3D and made decent use of both perspectives. But it wouldn't really matter that much anyway if this game carried over any of the elements that made Unleashed so enjoyable. Completely irrelevant, but since you seem adamant about this whole Fire Mario thing, last I checked, he wasn't in Super Mario 64, yet it remains the favorite for a lot of people. :v:
I thought people everyone both retro and new school fans wanted super sonic playable in levels? When the did try something new, everyone bashed it. Sonic and the Black Knight to name one.
Is someone in here seriously trying to twist the return of classic badniks and in-stage Super Sonic into a mainstream "3D" title into a bad thing? Wtf am I reading?
Sonic Unleashed turned Sonic into a Jekyll n' Hyde all-reflex racing game pasted to a larger God of War meets Ristar brawler tied together by hub worlds driven by a mandatory Find the MacGuffin goal system. Hardly what I'd call "Sonic", but to each his own I guess. I personally love Sonic Adventure despite its alleged poor aging. :/ The strengths of Unleashed over Colors was 3D platforming (most in the Werehog levels I imagine), of which Colors had none. This "flow" business, though, just reminds me more of how much Unleashed is a linear boost-fest about half the time rather than a good Sonic game. But hey, you're probably talking about the HD version of the game, which I'm convinced is almost completely different than the PS2 version, so go figure.
Because it was trying to something completely new. Super Mario 64 wasn't Super Mario in 3D, it was a completely brand new design. Sonic Colors isn't, and was never intended to be. I'm sure if there had been enough games without a hint of any of the old Mario power-ups, people would start wanting them back, the same way people wanted Super Sonic in levels back. It's not a regression or an over-indulgence of nostalgia. It's a notable feature of the game. Besides. Fire Mario wasn't my only example .
I have no problems with your complaints about the way Colors plays, but your concepts of "retro theme" are ridiculous. Most of the complaints listed are cosmetic that changing it would make little difference to the new player or even the veteran. They're cosmetic, or changes that were made more because the level called for the design rather than to be "retro". The 2D focus was made in favor of 3D because of all the complaints of previous games. Underwater sections is not something Sonic the Hedgehog invented. The Underwater sections aren't even remotely similar to how the old games play either. Changing the motobugs to some other enemy design wouldn't break the game or take away from the experience. Springs and Super Sonic? Cosmetic. You can have them be purple and Super Sonic be a Mega Wisp ability and only the fans would care. They're throwbacks. That's all there is to it and people acknowledge that fact. You list these things as giant game breakers. I find it funny that you cite Donkey Kong Country Returns as an example. Don't get me wrong, DKCR is an amazing game, but innovative and fresh? Mechanics work a little differently, and there are new enemies and locations, but a majority of the game was designed to appeal to the original crowd that loved the Donkey Kong Country games. That in no wakes it bad at all, but that game was designed with that intention. Sonic Colors was designed as a new game and they tossed a FEW of reminders of the past in it for those who stuck around since the beginning. And on top of that, some of these throwbacks actually add to the game and you're complaining for their removal because they're "retro".
Open mind? No, don't flatter yourself please. You're taking series staples, much of which have been absent from and demanded to be in mainstream Sonic games for a very long time, and trying to make them out to be outdated. Outdated to what? Instant death upon touching water? The mere color of springs? Emeralds and a Super Sonic mechanic that have degraded from an optional collectable and encompassing reward to mandatory plot devices and and self-contained, functionally jarring sequences?
Super Sonic is almost absolutely cosmetic, but it's nice. It's like using some of that old cologne you haven't touched for a decade and having people recognize it and say, "Hey, that's your old cologne! Sweet." Other than that, he wasn't quite as fast as I would've liked and he can't use Wisps. Could've been more impressive than that, but it's still much better than not having him at all. Same with underwater sequences and classic badniks. I couldn't really give a hoot'n-nanny about the color of springs and whatnot. I suppose it could've been green instead or something and bounced Sonic so high he came out the bottom of the screen.
I know they're minor complaints. :v: See? For all those who came late, my initial post will give you a better understanding of exactly why Colors was a weak entry in the series for me. As for the DKCR thing, unless you've beaten all of the DKC games and can tell me otherwise, I can assure you that the game is very different from the originals. It's a gigantic step forward to Colors' small step back in what it does new. Playing the original DKC and DKCR back to back, you almost wouldn't know they were the same game if they didn't have the same name and characters.
You're entitled to your opinion. I'm entitled to tell you why I think you're wrong. DKCR feels like a generic platformer to me. The enemies are generic looking. The gameplay feels generic. It feels like a Donkey Kong game riding on the fame of it's predecessors. It's very different from it's predecessors, sure. But not in a good way. I think it's a small step back compared to Colors' step forward from Unleashed. I'd have much rather preferred they use the iconic designs from the previous game, instead of replacing them with throwaway enemies like The Tiki Crew or whatever the hell their name is. Feel free to tell me exactly why you think I'm wrong.
I have played the DKC games and I can see the difference. DKCR is like DKC, but fun. It's still a gigantic nostalgia bomb when you compare it to Sonic Color's minor fan service which include the following according to you: Super Sonic Yellow Springs Motobugs Underwater Levels Does the fact that DKCR lack underwater levels make it more of a new game than Sonic Colors can ever dream to be?
Again, you're saying "Color's small step back" like it's a bad thing. That's what we're not agreeing on. Could Colors have been better and done more? Absolutely. Was it worse than Unleashed? Uhh ... I'm gonna say no for now, but I'll reserve my judgment until I've played the superior version. I at least liked the story to Unleashed barring the ancient godbeast, but the rest of the game was kind of a letdown. I enjoyed the Werehog just a bit more than Sonic's gameplay, and there's something very wrong about that in a Sonic game. Even Sonic Adventure's Sonic gameplay felt right for all its flaws, including Big the Cat. There's a difference between doing something new and doing something that's both fun and works for the franchise, and for the past 10 years or so, SEGA has been putting out games that only satisfy the former rather than the latter. That they came out of left field with Sonic Colors and Wisps and no extra characters and no ancient god-beast is enough of a departure from what I didn't care for in 3D Sonic games. Now, when you measure it up to other games like Super Mario Galaxy or Donkey Kong Country Returns, of course it's going to fall short. Games like those have done more new and done more right than any 3D Sonic game ever has, and Sonic Colors just begins to follow their lead. I like where it's going so far, and all I'll say about it's improvements are to get rid of the wonky controls in 3D and 2D and get rid of overly linear boost-centric 3D racing sections all together. Speed is good, but not if there's too much speed for too long a duration. It's better if speed is a little more measured off with better level design and, more importantly, not a problem to control or manipulate. I don't mind the sense of velocity you get from Unleashed and Colors, but I do mind sacrificing flexible level design and impeccable controls solely for that reflex-based racing. Case in point? Sonic and the Secret Fucking Rings.
