Sonic 4: Episode 2 Discussion

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Chimpo, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. Blue Blood

    Blue Blood

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    Because of the way they were used in S4. Take Marble Garden for example. Act 2 has everything that Act 1 had in terms of gimmicks, but also added earthquakes to the selection. And instead of running down the steep hills ala Act 1, you climbed up them with them with the help of some new pulleys. So throughout the zone there's wheels, Reliefs, spinning tops, earthquakes and pulleys. Now if we take Lost Labyrinth from S4, there isn't very much to make all the acts feel like part of the same stage. Act 1 only has the boulders as a gimmick, act 2 only has the torch puzzles/mine cart and act 3 only has water. Each act should built on elements from before, not scrap them entirely. This is where Mad Gear 3 shines, because it incorporates the gimmicks from act 1 and 2 while adding a new one of it's own (the see-saws).

    Also this
     
  2. Icewarrior

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    OK so you guys are complaining about how second and third act doesn't take on every features the previous one had and expand it.

    But that still doesn't explain how something that make the game less redudant (and particularly between each acts) is supposed to make the game shitty? Just because the way the gimmicks are used isn't EXACTLY executed like in the classics doesn't mean it's bad or worse. It's simply different.
    To me, it really help making each section of the game stands out by their unique set of gimmicks and challenges, I did enjoy that aspect in games like Ristar as Muteki mentionned. It especially help when you have only 4 different zones.
     
  3. Falk

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    Whoosh

    edit: Oh I get it. Touche!
     
  4. Sonic Warrior TJ

    Sonic Warrior TJ

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    Boingboingboingboingboingwhooshboingboingwhooshjumpringringringwhooshboingboingsignpostspinningwhirrrr yeah level design
     
  5. serpx

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    Game is looking great to me. Nothing is really bothering me (compared to S4E1) minus a few level design decisions that we've all talked about, and the so-far mediocre music. I'm not really feeling the magic of the classic titles -- personally these Sonic 4 games still lack some of that substance. What do I mean by that? I don't even know, it's just a small attempt at describing the feeling I get from seeing this game. I'm more excited to play Episode Metal than anything else.
     
  6. Metal Man88

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    Well, as I noted earlier, the classic games were sort of weird compared to any modern game. Let me give an example.

    In Launch Base zone, you go from elevators, to floating platforms, to spinning cupola things on poles, to weird overhead high-speed ziplines, to circular pump things that launch you up in the air, to horizontal boosters composed of rubber things that fly out of the ground and hit you. And that doesn't even count the many mini-obstacles thrown around all over the place, the water pipes in act 2, etc.

    In that snow level in Sonic 4 E2, you have springs, boosters, oil-ocean like snow slides, bubble chains, and pushing huge snowballs around. That's about it.

    Variety is the spice of life. You get about 3 times more variety in the better classic Sonic levels. They're more densely packed with little pieces. I guess what I can compare it best is...

    You have a densely filled area with lots of little gimmicks vs. a racetrack lined with fewer, more repetitive gimmicks. And each level changes less of the gimmicks than any classic one does.

    tl:dr; version: Sonic 4 and its ilk are repetitive and lacking in level gimmickry. They have more than they used to ,but at the rate we're going we'd be up to Episode 10 before they have as many gimmicks per level as Sonic 2. Let alone Sonic 3K, where it goes completely over the top. They're more making levels like the sparse Sonic 1 than 2 or 3K. It's 'Classic' in the way that it mimics a game I never really cared about.
     
  7. jasonchrist

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    This, basically! The reason people aren't feeling the magic is because it isn't there, plain and simple! And you know what? Neither is the fucking passion! Back in the day you just knew the people making the games absolutely LOVED what they were doing, the attention to detail was absolutely astounding! Even today I'm discovering neat little secrets and shortcuts in these games that I've been playing consistently for nearly 20 years. Today though? It seems like the cunts making Sonic 4 are like "ok, here's the zone, let's get Sonic to the fucking end of it as quickly as possible, I want to go home" cue the boosters, spring corridors and bubbles chains... oh and lest we not forget the one act gimmick.

    I swear to cunting christ, Sega must have gathered everyone together, asked "How many of you love Sonic? Great! Those of you that raised your hands you're working on Sonic Generations. Now how many of you are just here for a paycheck? Right, Sonic 4 it is for you lot then"
     
  8. Sonic Warrior TJ

    Sonic Warrior TJ

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    Well...yeah, Sonic Team developed Generations, while SEGA farmed out Sonic 4 like a cheap whore.
     
  9. Metal Man88

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    Hence my conclusion, it's best to deny them money for titles like this, no matter how hard they beg for it with small gimmes. Sure, I love the idea of playing Metal Sonic in a game—but if that game is Sonic 4, then it's simply not good enough. Give me Metal Sonic in Sonic 2 or 3K, or make Sonic 4 more like its older brethren. Or, if they're going to keep making it like the others, call it Sonic Advance 4, which is what it really is.
     
  10. Violet CLM

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    This is an unfair comparison. Later zones are almost always more gimmick-filled than earlier zones (contrast, e.g. Green Hill with Scrap Brain); you're comparing the final zone of one game to the first or second of another. The same goes for technological zones vs. nature zones. Let's try comparing White Park to Ice Cap, because they actually share a theme, even if Ice Cap is nearer to the end of its game. I'll also leave out stuff that's in every zone, because that's meaningless.

    White Park: Pushing snowballs around, snowboarding sections, snow you have to plow through.
    Ice Cap: Pushing ice platforms around, a snowboarding section, platforms that you run really fast onto so that they'll go up, platforms you jump on so they'll send you up.

    Advantage Ice Cap, by one... until you remember that we're only familiar with one third of White Park, and the other two acts could have absolutely anything in them.

    That said, the Ice Cap gimmicks are by and large better, because they're more interactive. But you were only citing numbers, and the zone you chose doesn't support that very well.
     
  11. Ajavalo

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    Actually, LBZ is the sixth (and not final!) zone of Sonic 3&K and White Park is the sixth zone in the full Sonic 4, they aren't as far off as you may think!

    There are A LOT more gimmicks than that in Icecap Zone.

    Seriously, it's really sad to see a winter level, which is my favourite trope in most Sonic games, with such little creativity given: the ground plain white and flat, without decorative crystals or anything, such short and simple snowboard sections, no getting frozen by snow cannons... they have so many options for gimmicks, like blizzards that push you around, quicksand-like snow, slippery ice, snow patches you get trapped in and have to jump out of... let's see how many of them we get in the end! By the way, I like that burrowing through snow thing :)
     
  12. Cooljerk

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    This is retarded reasoning, and I'll leave it to you to figure out why.
     
  13. There was only one act of White Park shown at the moment. The zone hasn't even had the chance to lay out the rest of its gimmicks yet. I think it's a little unfair that we're already comparing whole zones of later stages from one game to the zones we don't know fully yet in another.
     
  14. KeebeeNacho

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    Random thought: Why is it that so much effort was put into Sonic Colors and Generations, when Sonic fricking 4 was a lazy downloadable title?

    You'd think that the hyped up sequel to the classics would've gotten the best treatment, while the other titles were given the lazy Dimps treatment.

    Edit: Fixed...whatever weird shit was going on with this post.
     
  15. Dark Sonic

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    Probably because Sonic 1 - 3 were simple 2D games, so they thought hey lets make a simple 2D game. Since Dimps has done them well in the past with 2D games, who else but Dimps to do Sonic 4.

    Generations was a celebration of 20 years of Sonic though, that makes sense why that has more effort put into it. It's their way of destroying every other gameplay style that's ever existed and leaving us left with 2, Modern and Classic. It's their effort to not only celebrate the series but simplify it at the same time. Sonic Colors though? That is a good question. They hyped the fuck out of Sonic 4 and then they were like "Oh ya there's this game too." Honestly I think even they were surprised people liked Colors, which is funny, because Colors is a better Sonic 4 then Sonic 4 ep 1 was (wisps are spiritual successors to the elemental shields IMO). It had wisps, colorful and whimsical environments, and a simple down plot not revolving around anyone besides Sonic, Tails, and Eggman.
     
  16. X-Crim

    X-Crim

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    The big mistake was to title "Sonic 4". The saga "hedgehog" of genesis/megadrive have a shadow too big.
     
  17. Trunks

    Trunks

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    One thing I haven't heard anyone mention: When you kill a badnik, an animal pops out like they used to. I noticed it during my play through and was very happy.
     
  18. Falk

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    What else would you call a(n attempted) throwback to the classic 2D formula that got the point across?
     
  19. Dark Sonic

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    They did that in Ep 1 as well.
     
  20. KeebeeNacho

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    I'm drawing something, not that you'll ever see it.
    Edit: No wait, you're right. My bad...