Sonic 4: Episode 2 Discussion

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Chimpo, Dec 29, 2011.

  1. Machenstein

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    The Sonic 4 series didn't begin development as Sonic 4. It was originally going to be a series of generic 2D Sonic game to test the waters of the digital market. I guess midway through development, Sega and Dimps became overconfident and decided to market the game as Sonic 4.

    Which poses the question of what Sonic 4 would've been like had it been intended to be Sonic 4 from the very beginning. I propose that once this "saga" is over, Sega pulls a New Super Mario Bros. Wii and creates a retail version of Sonic 4 that borrows elements that worked in the episodic Sonic 4 while making a whole new game at the same time. The Episode 2 levels would have new layouts that don't force the player to use the tag-team moves, there would be a huge reduction of springs and speed boosters, and there would be minor cosmetic changes too such as the classic character designs. The music would also use real instruments and not some shoddy imitation of the Genesis sound chip.
     
  2. Aerosol

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    I'd like some corroboration to the claim that Sonic 4 didn't start development as Sonic 4, please.
     
  3. dsrb

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    I'd like to unread that story about a remade packaged version of Sonic 4, please.
     
  4. MykonosFan

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    Someone found it somewhere that the earliest name for Sonic 4 was "SonicDL". I think it was someone here who was examining the properties of some concept art, something on PartnerNET...something like that. It was a few years ago, I wouldn't know where to find it for sure.
     
  5. Guess Who

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    I guess that means Sonic Generations was conceived as "SonicHD" (since that's what it is called in the files - contrast with Colors, "SonicSD") and only midway through development did they get the idea that maybe it should be a celebration of Sonic history.

    Lesson: these codenames are meaningless. Don't try to extrapolate more history from them than is there.
     
  6. Aerosol

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    Yes I was going to say just that. SonicDL just sounds like "Sonic title intended for online distribution via downloading" to me.
     
  7. Machenstein

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    To be fair, I don't know where this story of Sonic 4 not starting off as Sonic 4 came from. I'm just parroting what I've been hearing from others, and I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it were all true. The only other reason Sonic 4 is the way it is because Sega just doesn't care about the classics... which actually sounds more likely.

    I'm sorry, but I don't want Sonic 4 to forever remain a disjointed series of mediocre download titles. I know the name Sonic 4 doesn't mean anything now, but before it was even Project Needlemouse, it was our dream Sonic game. I will not allow what is currently called Sonic 4 to be the same Sonic 4 that I waited for. I won't let Sega and Dimps sour my vision that easily.
     
  8. Aerosol

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    Yea because Sonic 5 just sounds retarded. Personally, I'm waiting for Sonic Adventure 3!

    What, is that not funny anymore? Oh alright then.
     
  9. Machenstein

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    And how do you know Sonic 5 won't be every bit as disjointed as Sonic 4? How do you know Sega/Dimps/whatever won't just use the same exact design philosophy they used for Sonic 4?

    On second thought, I don't trust Sega with a true Sonic 4 either. I don't trust them because, like the rest of the Japanese games industry nowadays, they just can't do a simple thing without screwing up somewhere. I'll just get my new 2D Sonic games from better vendors like the fan games community.
     
  10. MykonosFan

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    I remember now. There was a Nintendo Power interview with Jun Senoue, where he said originally he was told "We're doing another 2D game!", and I THINK he mentioned they didn't originally know it would be Sonic 4. I've got the issue lying around somewhere and could post the excerpt sometime tomorrow morning if no one can find it online. It doesn't seem to be on Retro under the Interviews section at a glance.
     
  11. Dark Sonic

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    Because the Taxman remake of Sonic CD sold beyond their wildest expectations and because they know that everyone loved Generations. Put them together and what do you get? Something very different then Sonic 4 that's for sure.
     
  12. Aerosol

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    I was referring to the "Sonic 4 used to be a fan's wet dream" part of your post. Nobody wants a Sonic 5, even if it were going to be an awesome, mainstream title. Because "Sonic 5" sounds stupid.
     
  13. Dark Sonic

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    Hold your tongue. I'll have a Sonic 5 if it's good. If could be called "Sonic's Good Old fashioned fun time adventure of yore" for all I care. Is if fun? Then it passes.
     
  14. Metal Man88

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    Ice Cap also has the infinite fall zone, platforms which you smash an ice switch so you can fall down, ice-filled loops, piles of snow that get in the way and have to be spindashed through, platforms in the water which sink when you jump on them and also walls of ice that must be spindashed through, which double as platforms you have to shave down to size by spindashing through them.

    Sonic 4 Episode 2 doesn't have any more than what was already mentioned, maybe if we want we can also count annoying boss battles and having to use the team-up gimmick, but as you said those suck compared to Sonic 3's gimmicks.

    Indeed. Combining what you said with what I said, it only gets more distant—Sonic 4 not only has less gimmicks for comparable levels, but they also are inferior gimmicks.

    Let us assume the pattern continues across all the acts of Sonic 4 Ep 2 White Park—again, there is not enough gimmicks, and, they are inferior.

    But, hey. If you like Sonic 4, that's your business.

    I just don't like it based upon it having less gimmicks and being a sparse wasteland filled with springs and bubble chains.
     
  15. Aerobian-Angel

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    Hey Jason, you need to let go of your tendency to constantly refer to homosexuals, intercourse, and fecal matter. :specialed:

    Hah, I kid. Anyway, something bothers me about the points you guys have. There's this:
    [quote name= 'jasonchrist']
    That's a major problem with Sonic 4. Acts should never focus on anything. That's one of the things that looked really shitty in episode 1 and now episode 2. "This is the torch act, this is the minecart act, this is the card act, now this is the water act", the classics had act specific gimmicks, but they all felt like part of a great, rich organic experience which blends together beautifully from act to act. Did anyone call Launch Base Act 1 "the elevator act" and 2 "the water pipe act"? (I can think of many more examples) exactly!
    [/quote]
    and this as well:
    For one thing, a LOT of people that I know remember the Classics' stages based off of their experiences with them —not the backdrop itself, hence the gimmicks. I've heard titles such as: "Spinning Tops", "Pink Water", "The One With The Stupid Enemy Placement" (Metropolis, don't ya know?), and many more. For one thing, Sonic 4 did have limitations on its gimmick expansion, but the thing is that Episode 1 went for simple/scarce gimmicks on the grounds that the fans wanted things to be "SIMPLE ON GAMEPLAY LIKE THE CLASSICS!!!!111!!", only to get yelled at for not being "EXPANSIVE ON GAMEPLAY LIKE THE CLASSICS!!!!111!!" Episode 2 is doing a good job at trying to find that ever-fluctuating Happy Medium between the two demands, but contrasting comments as aforementioned are not helping. For one thing, we've only gotten SOLID (not spliced) footage of White Park and Sylvania Castle. For what they're worth, we've gotten ourselves a good amount of stage-specific elements:

    Sylvania Castle has foreground/background platforms (something that the Classics NEVER did, mind you), extended loops (don't forget that you noted freaking elevators as one of your points), ruins-shifting switches. White Park has packed snow to burrow through, avalanches (seriously how did you guys forget to list that), snowboarding segments (albeit linear), ice-block smashing, and snowball rolling. The biggest thing to note is that these are all from each Zone's first Act. We ALL know that the levels are far more gimmick-expansive than shown in the demos, yet we judge pieces to wholes. Why? What if I placed the gimmicks of Angel Island Zone against ALL of the gimmicks that Sonic 4's Zones have to offer? "IT'S GOT MORE! IT'S MORE FUN!" (or "IT'S TOO CONVOLUTED! IT SUCKS!" for those supporting simplicity). Hardly the case.

    Not to mention the recurring gimmicks like the SAdv3-inspired Co-op mechanics for flying to new heights and barreling through enemies and terrain in a double-spindash (despite it being brokenness, yet silly-looking as well). And while these may be burdened with the recurring theme of Springs, Boosters, and Bubbles as well, they're not NEARLY as plentiful as in Episode 1 (I really just think that the designers wanted it to ALWAYS feel like a speedrun or something), as the game footage shows (contrary to the trailers). What I want to know is why did Dimps insist on so many Boosters when Sonic traversed the first slope in White Park (which was quite steep) just fine? It's like they don't trust their own coding, so they frequently slap on Boosters and springs...

    Speaking of gimmick-frequency, Episode 2 appears to be working with different sets of gimmicks per Act. Whereas Sonic 1-3K has the same gimmicks copied-and-pasted across its Acts for the most part (somewhat subverted in some stages of Sonic Knuckles). As far as I am knowledgeable of, the games are either all in the same boat or Sonic 4 constantly renews its gimmicks to keep the game feel fresh throughout the levels. Personally, I like having new challenges per Act when given the choice, as I expect it to have more memorable experiences. Whether or not it actually will, is to be determined when the entire game itself is available to play.

    But enough of my drivel on 2 stages, I wonder how the other Acts and levels will pan out like...
     
  16. Skyler

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    Re: Sonic 4 beginning as Sonic 4, Ken has said in a few Ep1 interviews that they started on the project knowing full well that it would be Sonic 4. I'm calling BS on that one, personally.
     
  17. Blue Blood

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    I know the one solid source we have is Jun Senoue saying he was asked to do the music for a Megadrive-style game but at that point a name hadn't been decided. It was in an interview in a Nintendo Power...
    So yeah, I'll call bullshit on what Ken said too.
     
  18. Aerosol

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    I guess. Sonic 5 sounds stupid too me. There comes a point when numbered sequels just start to sound awkward for me.
     
  19. dsrb

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    A lot of people don't want these things in theory—but your dramatics here are presented in the future tense as if your opinion can make something happen, so how do you propose to make the change you want; what are you going to do?

    They may well not release a physical version, and if they do I bet my ass they won't completely overhaul it.
     
  20. Violet CLM

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    I never said anything to that effect.