Sonic 3C(ustomizable)

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Hayate, Jan 2, 2010.

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  1. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    If you are thinking of adding another character how about Metal Sonic? He could actually bring some interesting gameplay elements to the table if you remember that just because he's a robot Sonic doesn't make him his clone. He has different acceleration, different jumping heights, different speed, and he has the black shield and you could possibly use that cannon for something like a laser. He too could probably go through Sonic or Knuckles paths.

    Also how do you plan on having Amy going into Sonic's Lava Reef Act 2 Path? How would it work if Knuckles isn't there with the bolder?

    And who do you plan on replacing Amy with? Sonic? What happened to that Sonic 3 and Knuckles redundancy edit, there has to be additional data that can be canned for the sake of having another character in there.
     
  2. Impish

    Impish

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    You say that about everything Dark Sonic! :P Not that it's a bad idea, but Hayate already said he wasn't planning on adding anymore characters.
     
  3. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    <!--quoteo(post=391569:date=Jan 2 2010, 10:07 PM:name=Impish)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Impish @ Jan 2 2010, 10:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391569">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You say that about everything Dark Sonic! :P Not that it's a bad idea, but Hayate already said he wasn't planning on adding anymore characters.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    We are observant aren't we. Yep I do say that a lot, only because Metal is my favorite character but he's never been playable in any of the 2D games, which is a damn shame because he's awesome.
     
  4. Hayate

    Hayate

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    <!--quoteo(post=391558:date=Jan 3 2010, 05:13 AM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 3 2010, 05:13 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391558">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you are thinking of adding another character how about Metal Sonic? He could actually bring some interesting gameplay elements to the table if you remember that just because he's a robot Sonic doesn't make him his clone. He has different acceleration, different jumping heights, different speed, and he has the black shield and you could possibly use that cannon for something like a laser. He too could probably go through Sonic or Knuckles paths.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    As I said, I'm not adding any more characters after Amy. I also have no idea what "the black shield" is.

    If you want to go to the effort of finding a whole ~200 sprites for him and aligning them up perfectly in SonMapEd I'd be happy to code a patch to replace Amy's slot with him, but I can't be bothered to do all the sprite work involved in getting Amy in the game a second time and there simply isn't room for a fifth character. There are four sets of character art in S3K big enough to hold a full character: S&K Sonic, S&K Knuckles, S3 Sonic and S3 Tails - so Amy will overwrite S3 Sonic's art.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also how do you plan on having Amy going into Sonic's Lava Reef Act 2 Path? How would it work if Knuckles isn't there with the bolder?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    She can jump over Knuckles' boulder to go into Knuckles' route, or she can stay still to go into Sonic's route.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And who do you plan on replacing Amy with? Sonic? What happened to that Sonic 3 and Knuckles redundancy edit, there has to be additional data that can be canned for the sake of having another character in there.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Amy isn't in the original game, so how can I replace her with anyone? Assuming you meant "who do you plan on replacing with Amy", she's going to be added to the game, replacing the unreferenced S3 Sonic art as I mentioned above.

    The "Sonic 3 and Knuckles redundancy edit" you mention rings a bell, but what you seem to not understand is that in this version I can't reorganize areas of the ROM on a whim. The patch system has been designed so that you can apply a patch from the current release to any future release and it should still work (the other way around probably won't work though, because most patches simply enable/disable code that's already present in the ROM release, rather than add code themselves). Plus, I want to keep compatibility with S2K and hopefully at one point make it possible to have a true S1K lockon - so that in other words you could take apart a genuine S&K cartridge, replace the ROM chip with that from a flashcart storing my S&K ROM (if that was technically possible, which it should be but I'm no hardware expert), lock on Sonic 1 and be able to play as Sonic, Tails or Knuckles with all their abilities.
     
  5. Dark Sonic

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    Oh right the redundancy edit got rid of S2K data. And I worded that wrong I meant to say which character would Amy be taking place of, which you answered with Sonic 3 Sonic which sounds right to me.

    And the Black shield was one of Metal Sonic's attacks in Sonic Adventure 2 which involved Metal Sonic being surrounded by a sort of diamond shape shield which would hurt enemies on contact.
     
  6. <!--quoteo(post=391710:date=Jan 3 2010, 02:22 PM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 3 2010, 02:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391710">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh right the redundancy edit got rid of S2K data. And I worded that wrong I meant to say which character would Amy be taking place of, which you answered with Sonic 3 Sonic which sounds right to me.

    And the Black shield was one of Metal Sonic's attacks in Sonic Adventure 2 which involved Metal Sonic being surrounded by a sort of diamond shape shield which would hurt enemies on contact.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    OR simply make the normal shield in Sonic 1 and 2 the Diamond Shield...
     
  7. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    <!--quoteo(post=391714:date=Jan 3 2010, 11:39 AM:name=RGamer2009)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RGamer2009 @ Jan 3 2010, 11:39 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391714">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=391710:date=Jan 3 2010, 02:22 PM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 3 2010, 02:22 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391710">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh right the redundancy edit got rid of S2K data. And I worded that wrong I meant to say which character would Amy be taking place of, which you answered with Sonic 3 Sonic which sounds right to me.

    And the Black shield was one of Metal Sonic's attacks in Sonic Adventure 2 which involved Metal Sonic being surrounded by a sort of diamond shape shield which would hurt enemies on contact.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    OR simply make the normal shield in Sonic 1 and 2 the Diamond Shield...
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    shits nothing like the normal shield. It's activated by the character itself as an attack.
     
  8. Hayate

    Hayate

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    So, after the annoying task of splitting the Sonic 3 ROM and compacting a bunch of copypasted player code to free up space so that I can finally start coding Amy, we get... Red Sonic!

    [​IMG]

    Who can apparently stick to walls with his feet!

    yeah =P I'm basing Amy's code from Knuckles' rather than Sonic's, because a) all the shared subroutines are in Sonic's code and b) Sonic has a crapload of Super checks and Knuckles doesn't.

    And yes, she does have the correct sprites for walking and running, but she uses the wrong palette so her eyelashes are an ugly shade of green.

    Edit:

    [​IMG]

    I'm sorry, what?
     
  9. Hayate

    Hayate

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    Getting there.

    Most of Amy's sprites are in now, and her ground hammer attack is in (but her air one isn't yet).

    Still, I'm sure every hacker around here has seen what happens when you forget to check the hitcounter byte when destroying enemies:

    [​IMG]
     
  10. Iceguy

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    Holy stuff, new-gen Amy. Icey heaps likes new-gen Amy! [​IMG]
    Can't wait to try her out and stuff, eet looks heaps promising. c:
     
  11. Chaos Knux

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    This hack looks delicious Hayate, I too found Amy's slightly more difficult gameplay in Advance fascinating. Here's to a glorious new gameplay option! *drinks*
     
  12. MarkeyJester

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    Interesting shot there, so it looks like this is turning serious now, a proper S3 hack on it's way, amazing. as said above, looks promising =)
     
  13. Hayate

    Hayate

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    Amy's attacks are pretty much perfected now, she can hit enemies and bosses, and you can chain together successful air attacks (if you don't hit anything, you have to wait til you land and jump again to attack again); you also get a period of invulnerability after a successful attack (to stop cheap "both objects get hurt" situations happening). Now I just need to let her break open monitors, smash walls, fix the garble that appears when she finishes an act (she needs a signpost frame, a life icon and an "AMY" text for the results screen) and put a few remaining unimportant animations (e.g. pushing, dying) in.

    The sprites for her air attack are pretty shit at the moment though - since that was just me rotating her arm around in mspaint. :v: If anyone wants to redraw them be my guest. The dozens of rotating sprites (not including jumping off springs, because her spring launches and normal jumps will both use the same animation of jumping, reaching the peak of the jump and then falling) will just have to stay as pink Sonic until some fine spriter is kind enough to draw those, as there's no way I can do that and you hardly see them anyway. =P

    Obviously the other things that I need to do are to add her as an option to the data select screen (currently I've been doing it through level select) and play through the levels to make sure nothing goes horribly wrong in Knuckles' paths (apparently, the game thinks that anyone who isn't character 03 is Sonic, which has already caused a few problems for Knuckles plus Tails which I've put in slot 04).
     
  14. Aquaslash

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    If I'm not too late to make a suggestion, I think Amy should be like Tails in that she can't super mode with only the Chaos Emeralds.

    Also do you at least have dummy data for the data select icons? I could probably drum up a few, given the proper palette.

    Speaking of palette. For the love of Primus, because this annoys the heck out of me. The 2nd Chaos Emerald is orange, and the secret Chaos Emerald is yellow. Would you be willing to swap those colors? That would make the Chaos Emeralds actually consistent with...every other canon game ever.
     
  15. Hayate

    Hayate

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    <!--quoteo(post=392245:date=Jan 5 2010, 03:47 AM:name=Aquaslash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aquaslash @ Jan 5 2010, 03:47 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392245">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If I'm not too late to make a suggestion, I think Amy should be like Tails in that she can't super mode with only the Chaos Emeralds.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Never too late to make a suggestion, but no. I always hated how Tails couldn't go super with only the Chaos Emeralds. When I'm done rearranging the character code like mad (I spent more time making space for Amy's code than actually writing it!) all characters will have both super and hyper forms like Sonic and Knuckles. There'll be a patch to make Tails and Amy need all 14 emeralds, though.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also do you at least have dummy data for the data select icons? I could probably drum up a few, given the proper palette.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Nope. I need a signpost frame as well, and a life icon. =_= If you're volunteering, go right ahead! You can get the palette from <a href="http://teamikaria.com/dl/LOO8TxS-xMuc2pIJ-BVhLs4RDWHqQ9cJYYs8NcSGkdzjqeca.png" target="_blank">that SonMapEd screenshot</a> I posted earlier, or <a href="http://var.projectnanako.com/junk/amypal.bin" target="_blank">here's the binary version</a>.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Speaking of palette. For the love of Primus, because this annoys the heck out of me. The 2nd Chaos Emerald is orange, and the secret Chaos Emerald is yellow. Would you be willing to swap those colors? That would make the Chaos Emeralds actually consistent with...every other canon game ever.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Sure.
     
  16. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    ...what? I don't get that palette. All you really had to do was switch out Sonic's blues for Amy's pinks, and his green for a yellow.
     
  17. Cinossu

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    While I love the idea of Amy being in this.. I really do not like those sprites. D:
     
  18. Dark Sonic

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    Agreed.

    Where's that guy who made those awesome Sally sprites? He could whip up a good Amy sprite sheet most likely... as well as a proper Tails standing sprite that doesn't blatantly look like it was taken from Sonic 2.
     
  19. The KKM

    The KKM

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    <!--quoteo(post=392459:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392459">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Agreed.

    Where's that guy who made those awesome Sally sprites? He could whip up a good Amy sprite sheet most likely... as well as a proper Tails standing sprite that doesn't blatantly look like it was taken from Sonic 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Or he could just use Deebs' sheet.
     
  20. Cinossu

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    <!--quoteo(post=392459:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392459">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Where's that guy who made those awesome Sally sprites? He could whip up a good Amy sprite sheet most likely...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    He's working on his own hack, give him a break. :P

    <!--quoteo(post=392459:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392459">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as well as a proper Tails standing sprite that doesn't blatantly look like it was taken from Sonic 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    .. as well as the walk, the run, the roll/spin, the spindash.. owait they're all from Sonic 2 except for the flying! I never knew! </sarcasm> :P
     
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