Sonic 3C(ustomizable)

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Hayate, Jan 2, 2010.

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  1. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic 3 Customizable" target="_blank" style="background: url(http://info.sonicretro.org/images/5/50/Reticon.png) right no-repeat; padding-right: 20px; border-bottom: 1px dotted #3366BB; color: #3366BB; cursor:pointer; text-decoration:none;" class="wiki">Sonic 3 Customizable</a> <-- download from the wiki

    Extract to wherever, run customizer.exe and tell it which options you want by typing 'y' or 'n' to each prompt. As long as you specify at least one option, it'll create a s3kcustom.bin which you can load into your favorite emulator. If you don't want any options, just load s3kbuilt.bin.

    And here's a copypaste of options.txt for those too lazy to download (plus some extra notes in brackets):
    1: add "&KNUCKLES" branding (does not work for title cards yet - only for title screen and ending)
    2: use Sonic 3 credits music in ending
    3: no fade before results screen
    4: no music after results screen
    5: use S&K B2/B3 DAC sample
    6: use Sonic 3 title screen, invincibility, one-up and game clear tracks
    7: always play Sonic 3 midboss track
    8: always play S&K midboss and Knuckles tracks (if you specify neither 7 nor 8, it plays Sonic 3 midboss for Sonic and S&K midboss for Knuckles... this doesn't seem to work for ICZ yet though, and possibly others I haven't tested)
    9: do not gain extra lives after 200 rings (the original games only let you gain extra lives for 100 and 200 rings)
    10: use original LRZ/HPZ sequence (currently this only affects whether HPZ has a score tally)
    11: disable SATSEE-style bubble bounce landing with down button

    To avoid anyone moaning about IDEA STEALING: since Tiddles and I have a SVN repository for this hack, we'll be sharing bugfixes and some minor features between us. You should be able to get an identical gameplay experience to his "Sonic 3 Complete" hack (but not necessarily a byte-for-byte identical ROM) by enabling options 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 9, 10 and 11.

    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=nineko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nineko)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->And write it was your idea to split it again or Tweaker will kill me<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    <span style="font-size:8pt;line-height:100%">Also, it was my idea to split the topic again so don't kill Nineko<!--sizec--></span><!--/sizec-->
     
  2. Wow! That's great! I'd have never guessed that you would make a customizer! :) Nice job!
     
  3. Spanner

    Spanner

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    I've only played the ROM without using the customiser, but the results screen in HPZ should really be changed to use Act 1 instead of 2. :O
     
  4. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    The level select code in this is UDLR by the way, if you're wondering why the one I had there before didn't work. :)

    The customiser is pretty handy, nice addition. You're quite welcome to release it of course, though I would perhaps suggest listing it as a separate hack for the record - since the default music configuration and level select code is different from my original arrangement, and the bubble bounce stop is effectively a new feature, making this more than the simple "alternative S3&K" I had before. That way "Sonic 3 Complete" can remain a simple tweak to the original if that's all you want, and this project can take on plans for more extensive adjustments and content changes?
     
  5. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=391281:date=Jan 2 2010, 04:07 PM:name=SOTI)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SOTI @ Jan 2 2010, 04:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391281">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've only played the ROM without using the customiser, but the results screen in HPZ should really be changed to use Act 1 instead of 2. :O<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Oh no it shouldn't, you have no idea what I have in store for that zone :v:

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The customiser is pretty handy, nice addition. You're quite welcome to release it of course, though I would perhaps suggest listing it as a separate hack for the record - since the default music configuration and level select code is different from my original arrangement, and the bubble bounce stop is effectively a new feature, making this more than the simple "alternative S3&K" I had before. That way "Sonic 3 Complete" can remain a simple tweak to the original if that's all you want, and this project can take on plans for more extensive adjustments and content changes?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well, I didn't really want to make a new topic for it (since my version tries to stay true to yours as long as certain options are enabled), but whatever. I'll go make one next time I have something cool to show.

    EDIT: But what should I call it? "Sonic 3 and the Secret Extended Edition"? *brick'd*
     
  6. Spanner

    Spanner

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    <!--quoteo(post=391286:date=Jan 2 2010, 04:40 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 2 2010, 04:40 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391286">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=391281:date=Jan 2 2010, 04:07 PM:name=SOTI)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SOTI @ Jan 2 2010, 04:07 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391281">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've only played the ROM without using the customiser, but the results screen in HPZ should really be changed to use Act 1 instead of 2. :O<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Oh no it shouldn't, you have no idea what I have in store for that zone :v:
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Wouldn't another act turn this into a hack that would break from its origins?
     
  7. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    The idea is that everything I implement that isn't a bugfix can be turned on or off with the customizer.

    Currently the HPZ ELRS option is enabled by default, but I'll probably switch it round to disabled by default once I start editing the levels.

    In addition, anything that needs to overwrite the Sonic 3 ROM data (I.e. above $200000) would have to be disabled by default just because of how the build process works (this would be big additions which required a lot of space - the S&K ROM is almost full at the moment so once I start making big additions I'll have to start overwriting the S3 ROM addresses that aren't referenced by S3&K).
     
  8. Covarr

    Covarr

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    <!--quoteo(post=391286:date=Jan 2 2010, 08:40 AM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 2 2010, 08:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391286">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: But what should I call it? "Sonic 3 and the Secret Extended Edition"? *brick'd*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This wasn't even a good name when I suggested it for SATSEE, it was a joke.

    You could pull a Capcom, call it Super Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Turbo.

    edit:
    [​IMG]
    I've got this same wrong palette no matter which character I use.
     
  9. Runner

    Runner

    Long time no see, old friend. Member
    Why don't put an in-game Options menu with these customizations?

    This menu could be called "Hardcore Options"
     
  10. Spanner

    Spanner

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    <!--quoteo(post=391332:date=Jan 2 2010, 06:36 PM:name=Covarr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Covarr @ Jan 2 2010, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391332">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->[​IMG]
    I've got this same wrong palette no matter which character I use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    That's because of the grey that's used on the HUD.
     
  11. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=391332:date=Jan 2 2010, 06:36 PM:name=Covarr)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Covarr @ Jan 2 2010, 06:36 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391332">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=391286:date=Jan 2 2010, 08:40 AM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 2 2010, 08:40 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391286">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->EDIT: But what should I call it? "Sonic 3 and the Secret Extended Edition"? *brick'd*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This wasn't even a good name when I suggested it for SATSEE, it was a joke.

    You could pull a Capcom, call it Super Sonic the Hedgehog 3 Turbo.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Well, for the moment it's called "Sonic 3C(ustomizable)" as you can see :P I don't really think the name is too important though, so whatever.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I've got this same wrong palette no matter which character I use.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The black patches on the rocks are due to me fixing the HUD shadow color. The rocks will be fixed as soon as I find their art and run it through my palette converter.

    <!--quoteo(post=391354:date=Jan 2 2010, 07:16 PM:name=Runner)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Runner @ Jan 2 2010, 07:16 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391354">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Why don't put an in-game Options menu with these customizations?

    This menu could be called "Hardcore Options"<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Several reasons, all due to the fact that the options are compiled in.
    1. It saves ROM space - which is something I need to conserve in S&K hacking.
    2. It means the game doesn't have to expend RAM space on remembering the options.
    3. It means the game doesn't have to waste cycles checking the options.
    4. Some of the options wouldn't be possible to implement in-game or would be very difficult to do, particularly the music-related ones which is how this project started in the first place.

    Yes, things like the bubble bounce landing option could be put in an options menu with few inherent problems (other than making and finding space for the options menu itself), but I imagine that usually someone will either want it on all the time or off all the time, so they won't need to change it in-game.


    ---

    Here's what I'm working on at the moment:

    [​IMG]

    (sprites courtesy of <a href="http://themysticalforestzone.com/sprites_2008_AttoSama/update02_June/Jun_amy_gen_froggy5.png" target="_blank">the Mystical Forest Zone</a>)

    Yes, that's right, I'm going to add Amy. She'll be slower than the other characters and won't be able to roll, spin jump or spin dash (unless you enable those with a cheat; she will still roll in auto-roll tunnels of course), but she will be able to attack with her hammer whether on the ground (with down+jump, whether stationary or moving) or in the air (with double jump). Her hammer can break all breakable walls (even the ones that only Knuckles can break, or the ones that only special objects like the MGZ spinning tops can break, etc etc), and she has the same jump height as Sonic doing a bubble bounce, so she can get to almost every area that both Sonic and Knuckles can get to (one notable exception being Knuckles' sequence in MGZ2, due to the amount of climbing involved). There'll be a bit of work to do in terms of fixing all the character-specific bosses and scripting, but I think it'll be worth it as I've always liked Amy's more challenging gameplay in Sonic Advance 1. You won't have to unlock her - nobody likes having to go out of their way to unlock things! Since she's just a bonus character, I won't bother making a specific ending for her - she can invoke both Sonic's and Knuckles' endings depending on which route you take in Lava Reef.
     
  12. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
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    You stole half of my hack.

    ...half that I was never going to finish.

    You can keep it.
     
  13. Covarr

    Covarr

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    Ultra asskickery going on here! Will she have a super/hyper form?
     
  14. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    I don't see why not =P Not sure what to use for her hyper moves, though. The only idea I have right now is for Hyper Amy to have infinite hammers at her disposal to throw at enemies which would work just like pressing B while playing as Cream in Sonic Advance 2.

    But I can't decide whether that's awesome or lame.
     
  15. GeneHF

    GeneHF

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    So she'll essentially be the Hammer Bros. Suit in Sonic.
     
  16. Afti

    Afti

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    <!--quoteo(post=391386:date=Jan 2 2010, 03:47 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 2 2010, 03:47 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391386">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I don't see why not =P Not sure what to use for her hyper moves, though. The only idea I have right now is for Hyper Amy to have infinite hammers at her disposal to throw at enemies which would work just like pressing B while playing as Cream in Sonic Advance 2.

    But I can't decide whether that's awesome or lame.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Just make it one boomerang-hammer. Fewer sprites on screen; projectiles used in an already-dense area could get messy.
     
  17. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    The S Factor: Sonia and Silver
    Though modern Amy is easier on palettes, I can't help but think you should be adding a classic style Amy there instead.
     
  18. This is turning into a large hack. I can't wait to see what other characters you have in store *shot*
     
  19. Ravenfreak

    Ravenfreak

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    I love Amy, and I can't wait to play as her in your hack! It keeps getting better and better, keep up the great work guys. ^^
     
  20. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=391474:date=Jan 3 2010, 12:12 AM:name=Aquaslash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aquaslash @ Jan 3 2010, 12:12 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391474">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Though modern Amy is easier on palettes, I can't help but think you should be adding a classic style Amy there instead.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Assuming by "classic Amy" you mean "Sonic CD Amy" then my response is that I simply never liked that version of her. Just be thankful I didn't put Advance sprites in. =P

    If you want to see Sonic CD Amy instead, then you're welcome to make your own patches; I'll post how when it's released.

    <!--quoteo(post=391486:date=Jan 3 2010, 12:45 AM:name=Magickoopa24)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Magickoopa24 @ Jan 3 2010, 12:45 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=391486">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This is turning into a large hack. I can't wait to see what other characters you have in store *shot*<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I probably won't be adding any more characters. If I do, then they'll be patched over an existing character rather than added to the roster, simply due to lack of available ROM space (each character's art is roughly 128kB, you know). It'd be very easy for me or anyone else to make patches to get whatever character you want in the game replacing one of the existing characters, once someone makes their data files (art, mappings, DPLCs and animations).

    Remember, I added Amy for her gameplay, not just for the sake of adding Amy. ;)

    While it's on my mind though, I'll probably allow playing as "Knuckles and Tails" and "Amy and Tails" just because it'd be relatively easy to do that.
     
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