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Sonic 3C(ustomizable)

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Hayate, Jan 2, 2010.

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  1. SuperSonicRider

    SuperSonicRider

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    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Knuckles will retain the original transitions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Will that mean Knuckles won't access Flying Battery in the Sonic 3 segment of the hack?
    Also:
    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=GARY M 9887)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GARY M 9887)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can you add Super Tails like from the S&K beta?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Will there be any other things we can expect corresponding from the betas? Perhaps the "mini-"Hyper Sonic/Knuckles from the betas obtained getting just the Chaos Emeralds? I'm not asking you to do this, I'm really not, just curious.
     
  2. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=394300:date=Jan 10 2010, 11:44 PM:name=SuperSonicRider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperSonicRider @ Jan 10 2010, 11:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394300">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Knuckles will retain the original transitions.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Will that mean Knuckles won't access Flying Battery in the Sonic 3 segment of the hack?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, Knuckles will play the entire section of the game as in current S3&K, with FBZ between MHZ and SOZ.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also:
    <!--quoteo(post=0:date=:name=GARY M 9887)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GARY M 9887)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Can you add Super Tails like from the S&K beta?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Will there be any other things we can expect corresponding from the betas? Perhaps the "mini-"Hyper Sonic/Knuckles from the betas obtained getting just the Chaos Emeralds? I'm not asking you to do this, I'm really not, just curious.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I have no idea what this "mini-" hyper thing is. But yes, both Super Tails and Hyper Tails will be available, and the same option will dictate whether Amy gets both forms or not, if she's enabled.

    And due to popular demand in the S3 Complete thread, I'll also add patches to switch between double-jump transform (default), triple-jump transform, two-button transform and three-button transform, plus a fourth patch for two-button de-transforming.

    I have to admit I've often transformed by accident while button-mashing trying to spindash upon landing on a slope, but the same input sequence would still have transformed using double-jump transform anyway.
     
  3. SuperSonicRider

    SuperSonicRider

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    Probably could have better explained that:

    When Sonic/Knuckles gets the 7 Chaos Emeralds alone, they gain their abilities from their Hyper forms; Sonic will be able to use the "Hyper Flash" (but without the "Flash" portion) that kills all onscreen enemies, and Knuckles gains the ability to glide into the wall at a speed to defeat all onscreen enemies.
    Sonic will also use the palette from his Hyper form. (Knuckles obviously uses it as well since it's the same for both his forms.)
    The only two things different about these and their regular Hyper forms is that Sonic/Knuckles will take on the appearance of their Super forms (Sonic won't have his star arrangement from Hyper; Knuckles won't have his afterimages) and will not be able to breathe underwater naturally. Hope that explains this well enough.

    If you wanna test it out yourself in S30517/S&K0525 to see EXACTLY what I'm talking about, go to Sound Test, play sounds 02, 04, 06, 08 (all C. Emeralds) and select a level with Sonic or Knuckles (of course). Be sure to transform in the normal fashion (50 Rings+Jump/Double Jump) and not with the S Monitor, because that gives you the "complete" Hyper form (e.g. the ones used in the final, ignoring that Hyper Sonic lacks afterimages and has the horizontally rotating star arrangement).

    You could also collect the Emeralds legitimately, but why do that if you're just doing a quick check, right?

    Anyway, Amy looks like she'll be pretty interesting to play as. I always liked Sonic Advance (and still do). I really like the sequence LB2 - DE1 (Final Boss from S3) - MH - S - LR - SS - DE2 - (7+Em.) TD. I also like how player-friendly Amy will be (as in you can choose whichever path you want; Sonic/Tails' or Knuckles'). It's a great idea to show the player what's in store for them later (referring to level order). (If that's what you were going for, anyway.) Pretty cool stuff you've got going on here.

    By the way, it was wrong of me to use an imaginary term that no one else knows without actually explaining it. Sorry about that.
     
  4. Afti

    Afti

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    1a, but DEZ1 at that point would throw off game balance...

    Maybe have two separate object layouts for DEZ1? The original for its normal appearance, and an easier one for its post-LBZ appearance? Get to a room stuck somewhere about midway through, press a switch, and run out when it 'splodes the first time through...

    And then you get back there, figure "Heh. This'll be easy," and realize that it's not at all the same simple task it once was.
     
  5. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=394769:date=Jan 12 2010, 02:52 AM:name=SuperSonicRider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperSonicRider @ Jan 12 2010, 02:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394769">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Probably could have better explained that:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So, in other words, the only difference between the Hyper Sonic you're talking about and the one that's already there is he doesn't make stars and he doesn't flash the screen.

    <!--quoteo(post=394771:date=Jan 12 2010, 03:09 AM:name=Afti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Afti @ Jan 12 2010, 03:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394771">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1a, but DEZ1 at that point would throw off game balance...

    Maybe have two separate object layouts for DEZ1? The original for its normal appearance, and an easier one for its post-LBZ appearance? Get to a room stuck somewhere about midway through, press a switch, and run out when it 'splodes the first time through...

    And then you get back there, figure "Heh. This'll be easy," and realize that it's not at all the same simple task it once was.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=394151:date=Jan 10 2010, 01:25 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 10 2010, 01:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394151">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I want to avoid altering/creating level layouts wherever possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Also, DEZ really isn't that hard. Nobody told me to dumb down FBZ since I'm moving it in front of ICZ, and to me FBZ is one of the hardest zones in the game.

    Finally, DEZ1 only makes one appearance. After SSZ you immediately go on to DEZ2.
     
  6. SuperSonicRider

    SuperSonicRider

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    <!--quoteo(post=394843:date=Jan 12 2010, 11:48 AM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 12 2010, 11:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394843">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=394769:date=Jan 12 2010, 02:52 AM:name=SuperSonicRider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperSonicRider @ Jan 12 2010, 02:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394769">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Probably could have better explained that:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So, in other words, the only difference between the Hyper Sonic you're talking about and the one that's already there is he doesn't make stars and he doesn't flash the screen.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    And he can't breathe underwater, but pretty much yes. That's why I figured it'd be pretty pointless to have both in there after rethinking it.
     
  7. Afti

    Afti

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    <!--quoteo(post=394843:date=Jan 12 2010, 06:48 AM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 12 2010, 06:48 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394843">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=394769:date=Jan 12 2010, 02:52 AM:name=SuperSonicRider)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (SuperSonicRider @ Jan 12 2010, 02:52 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394769">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Probably could have better explained that:<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    So, in other words, the only difference between the Hyper Sonic you're talking about and the one that's already there is he doesn't make stars and he doesn't flash the screen.

    <!--quoteo(post=394771:date=Jan 12 2010, 03:09 AM:name=Afti)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Afti @ Jan 12 2010, 03:09 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394771">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->1a, but DEZ1 at that point would throw off game balance...

    Maybe have two separate object layouts for DEZ1? The original for its normal appearance, and an easier one for its post-LBZ appearance? Get to a room stuck somewhere about midway through, press a switch, and run out when it 'splodes the first time through...

    And then you get back there, figure "Heh. This'll be easy," and realize that it's not at all the same simple task it once was.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <!--quoteo(post=394151:date=Jan 10 2010, 01:25 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 10 2010, 01:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=394151">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I want to avoid altering/creating level layouts wherever possible.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Also, DEZ really isn't that hard. Nobody told me to dumb down FBZ since I'm moving it in front of ICZ, and to me FBZ is one of the hardest zones in the game.

    Finally, DEZ1 only makes one appearance. After SSZ you immediately go on to DEZ2.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Fair enough.
     
  8. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    Hi guys,

    So Uni's finally over, and I thought hey, perhaps I should carry on with this hack.

    So while I do that, have a playable Amy that I should have released nearly five months ago. There's been no progress since January (check the date on the file!) but better late than never.

    <a href="http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3_Customizable#Downloads" target="_blank">http://info.sonicretro.org/Sonic_3_Customizable#Downloads</a>

    On the data select, after Knuckles is Knuckles + Tails ("DEL"), after that is Amy (illegible signpost), after that is Amy + Tails (same sprite as Amy alone). AND YES I KNOW THAT SONIC'S AND TAILS' SHOES ARE PINK.

    Zone-wise playability status is <a href="http://forums.sonicretro.org/index.php?s=&showtopic=18912&view=findpost&p=392705" target="_blank">here</a>. Please check that before saying why can't Amy do X.
     
  9. StephenUK

    StephenUK

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    Could you not program a cutscene for the end of LBZ where Tails flies in to save Sonic, picks him up and carries him in a similar fashion to the end of MGZ? That would also tie in to how Tails carries Sonic into MHZ.
     
  10. Hez

    Hez

    Oldbie
    Man...no offense but those Amy sprites do not match the sprite style at all.
     
  11. Hayate

    Hayate

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    <!--quoteo(post=462044:date=Jun 1 2010, 06:35 PM:name=Hez)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hez @ Jun 1 2010, 06:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462044">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Man...no offense but those Amy sprites do not match the sprite style at all.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    None taken. But they were the best I could find at the time, and I'm not going to the effort to change them now!
     
  12. Selbi

    Selbi

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    So this is a bugfixed and slightly customized version of S3 right? It shouldn't be too hard, so you might wanna have a look at this (unless you wanna keep hidden stuff like this in):
    <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNdl8neiCBo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNdl8neiCBo</a>

    Can't say anything else to it, really. This is the first time I read this topic, I always just clicked "mark as read" before. :v:
     
  13. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    Playing with Amy is fun but I'd advise having her hammer move activate with a certain button rather than Down and Jump.

    Also Knux dies upon entering his boss area in Angel Island in co-op mode (you probably know this already but to be safe). By the way will Tails be able to fly Knux around like with Sonic in the final version? (the Marble Garden glitch suggests it is somehow possible).
     
  14. nineko

    nineko

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    <!--quoteo(post=462138:date=Jun 1 2010, 11:17 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jun 1 2010, 11:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462138">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way will Tails be able to fly Knux around like with Sonic in the final version? (the Marble Garden glitch suggests it is somehow possible).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Some time ago I thought the same thing, and I've been told that that Tails is an entirely separate object (notice also how he doesn't get tired), so you shouldn't use that particular instance to believe it's an easy task. However I think it's definitely possible to work it out. In one of my test videos I even managed to get Tails to carry another Tails, albeit in a very buggy way.
     
  15. E-122-Psi

    E-122-Psi

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    <!--quoteo(post=462140:date=Jun 1 2010, 05:21 PM:name=nineko)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (nineko @ Jun 1 2010, 05:21 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462140">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=462138:date=Jun 1 2010, 11:17 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jun 1 2010, 11:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462138">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way will Tails be able to fly Knux around like with Sonic in the final version? (the Marble Garden glitch suggests it is somehow possible).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Some time ago I thought the same thing, and I've been told that that Tails is an entirely separate object (notice also how he doesn't get tired), so you shouldn't use that particular instance to believe it's an easy task. However I think it's definitely possible to work it out. In one of my test videos I even managed to get Tails to carry another Tails, albeit in a very buggy way.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    In versions I've played Tails randomly does or doesn't get tired during the boss (a glitch not recognising the object change maybe?). I get that there may be some different coding and placements perhaps going into normal gameplay, I just thought that the fact Knuckles can use a similar programming and object reaction such as that may mean it is possible theoretically.
     
  16. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=462138:date=Jun 1 2010, 10:17 PM:name=E-122-Psi)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jun 1 2010, 10:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462138">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Playing with Amy is fun but I'd advise having her hammer move activate with a certain button rather than Down and Jump.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    The reason I used Down+Jump was to avoid using more than one button, since that nerfs debug mode. I will, however, add an option sometime to put both her air and ground attacks exclusively on one button (A, B or C, whichever you like) with the other buttons being used for jump.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Also Knux dies upon entering his boss area in Angel Island in co-op mode (you probably know this already but to be safe).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Every character apart from Knuckles alone dies when entering this area. I remember investigating this thoroughly before my hiatus, and couldn't find any reason why this happens. So unless someone else finds the answer or I magically stumble upon something, I don't think this will be fixed any time soon, I'm afraid.

    <!--quoteo--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE </div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->By the way will Tails be able to fly Knux around like with Sonic in the final version? (the Marble Garden glitch suggests it is somehow possible).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Ironically the first feature I implemented after releasing 1.1 was making Tails be able to grab anybody. On the contrary to what nineko said, it was the easiest fix ever: I just had to comment out two lines which checked whether the character was Sonic and Tails together.
     
  17. nineko

    nineko

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    <!--quoteo(post=462155:date=Jun 1 2010, 11:44 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jun 1 2010, 11:44 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462155">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ironically the first feature I implemented after releasing 1.1 was making Tails be able to grab anybody. On the contrary to what nineko said, it was the easiest fix ever: I just had to comment out two lines which checked whether the character was Sonic and Tails together.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Glad to hear that. I guessed it was just a matter of commenting a line or two, but since I wasn't sure I went for a pessimistic answer :v:
     
  18. MoDule

    MoDule

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    Adding to the discussion, if I remember correctly, Tails carrying Sonic during the MGZ boss is not a separate object, but simply a special AI routine. In fact, Tails has a special AI routine for every zone, mainly to control his behavior when the zone starts (for example, CNZ, where he starts the zone carrying Sonic).
     
  19. Hayate

    Hayate

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    So, I made it so that if you land (and aren't holding left or right) while Amy's swinging her hammer, she completes the maneuver with a ground attack rather than just stopping abruptly.

    In doing so it seems I found yet another way to glitch through the floor: hammer-jump (or would it be "hammer-land"?) into a >45 degree slope.

    [​IMG]

    Oops.

    I'm tempted to leave this in just because it's such an esoteric glitch.

    (Or maybe that curve in Angel Island is one of Robotnik's diabolical traps)
     
  20. nineko

    nineko

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    <!--quoteo(post=462162:date=Jun 1 2010, 11:54 PM:name=MoDule)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MoDule @ Jun 1 2010, 11:54 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=462162">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Adding to the discussion, if I remember correctly, Tails carrying Sonic during the MGZ boss is not a separate object, but simply a special AI routine.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->That is what I've been told back in the day.

    Apparently this thread brings me bad luck, as I've been pwned twice in less than 10 minutes :v:
    I shouldn't post here anymore.
     
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