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Sonic 3C(ustomizable)

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Hayate, Jan 2, 2010.

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  1. Dark Sonic

    Dark Sonic

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    Working on my art!
    <!--quoteo(post=392461:date=Jan 5 2010, 04:17 PM:name=Cinossu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cinossu @ Jan 5 2010, 04:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392461">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=392459:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392459">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Where's that guy who made those awesome Sally sprites? He could whip up a good Amy sprite sheet most likely...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    He's working on his own hack, give him a break. :P

    <!--quoteo(post=392459:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392459">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as well as a proper Tails standing sprite that doesn't blatantly look like it was taken from Sonic 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    .. as well as the walk, the run, the roll/spin, the spindash.. owait they're all from Sonic 2 except for the flying! I never knew! </sarcasm> :P
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ya they're all from Sonic 2 yes, but mainly the standing one doesn't fit since like in Sonic 2, his feet face forward, where as Sonic and Knuckles feet face different directions in Sonic 3.
     
  2. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    If suggestions are welcome, I'd add the option to change Knuckles' sprites so they'd be using Sonic's palette (like in Stealth's "Knuckles in Sonic 1") and all the blue stuff wouldn't turn pink-ish for no reason.


    EDIT: Okay, he'd have blue socks but still.
     
  3. GARY M 9887

    GARY M 9887

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    Could you add Super Tails like from the S&K beta? Super Tails lacks flickies and can transform with just Chaos Emeralds while Hyper Tails (called Super in the final) has fickies.
     
  4. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

    Emerald Dragoon Moderator
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    <!--quoteo(post=392467:date=Jan 5 2010, 07:32 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jan 5 2010, 07:32 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392467">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If suggestions are welcome, I'd add the option to change Knuckles' sprites so they'd be using Sonic's palette (like in Stealth's "Knuckles in Sonic 1") and all the blue stuff wouldn't turn pink-ish for no reason.


    EDIT: Okay, he'd have blue socks but still.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But then his shoes would glow in Super Mode.
     
  5. Polygon Jim

    Polygon Jim

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    All the bitches.
    <!--quoteo(post=392466:date=Jan 5 2010, 07:28 PM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 5 2010, 07:28 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392466">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=392461:date=Jan 5 2010, 04:17 PM:name=Cinossu)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Cinossu @ Jan 5 2010, 04:17 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392461">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=392459:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392459">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Where's that guy who made those awesome Sally sprites? He could whip up a good Amy sprite sheet most likely...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    He's working on his own hack, give him a break. :P

    <!--quoteo(post=392459:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392459">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->as well as a proper Tails standing sprite that doesn't blatantly look like it was taken from Sonic 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    .. as well as the walk, the run, the roll/spin, the spindash.. owait they're all from Sonic 2 except for the flying! I never knew! </sarcasm> :P
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ya they're all from Sonic 2 yes, but mainly the standing one doesn't fit since like in Sonic 2, his feet face forward, where as Sonic and Knuckles feet face different directions in Sonic 3.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->


    What's funny is, he has feet sprites in the game from the rotating things in game that fit on his normal sprite perfectly.


    [​IMG]
     
  6. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=392460:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:15 AM:name=Koi Kami Mauro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koi Kami Mauro @ Jan 6 2010, 12:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392460">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=392459:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392459">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Agreed.

    Where's that guy who made those awesome Sally sprites? He could whip up a good Amy sprite sheet most likely... as well as a proper Tails standing sprite that doesn't blatantly look like it was taken from Sonic 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Or he could just use Deebs' sheet.
    <a href="http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5417/wips.png" target="_blank">http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5417/wips.png</a>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    While my first reaction to this was, of course, "why the fuck didn't I know about this sheet before?", it still doesn't include the air attack sprites that I had to create (and thus presently look like shit). Nor does it have the dozens of rotating poses. When someone gives me a sheet that has absolutely every sprite I need, I'll take the time to get them all in game. Until then, screw it.

    <!--quoteo(post=392467:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:32 AM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jan 6 2010, 12:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392467">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If suggestions are welcome, I'd add the option to change Knuckles' sprites so they'd be using Sonic's palette (like in Stealth's "Knuckles in Sonic 1") and all the blue stuff wouldn't turn pink-ish for no reason.


    EDIT: Okay, he'd have blue socks but still.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This would be extremely simple to do (I'd just have to run his art through my palette converter) but why bother? It takes out a shade of red, which I never really liked about the KiS1 look, and as said the super/hyper palette would screw things up (all sorts of stuff use those reds).

    <!--quoteo(post=392479:date=Jan 6 2010, 01:19 AM:name=GARY M 9887)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (GARY M 9887 @ Jan 6 2010, 01:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392479">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Could you add Super Tails like from the S&K beta? Super Tails lacks flickies and can transform with just Chaos Emeralds while Hyper Tails (called Super in the final) has fickies.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    That's exactly what I'm doing.

    <!--quoteo(post=392507:date=Jan 6 2010, 02:22 AM:name=Polygon Jim)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Jan 6 2010, 02:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392507">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->What's funny is, he has feet sprites in the game from the rotating things in game that fit on his normal sprite perfectly.
    [​IMG]<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    I already noticed that Sonic's mappings have several copies of the standing frame, each with their own copies of the tiles in the ROM (what a waste of space). But it's interesting that they went and drew a zero-degree rotating frame for Tails and didn't even copy it to his standing pose.

    Clearly Sonic Team did not have anything like SonMapEd at their disposal, or they'd have noticed this. :v:
     
  7. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    <!--quoteo(post=392511:date=Jan 5 2010, 09:43 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 5 2010, 09:43 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392511">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=392467:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:32 AM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jan 6 2010, 12:32 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392467">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If suggestions are welcome, I'd add the option to change Knuckles' sprites so they'd be using Sonic's palette (like in Stealth's "Knuckles in Sonic 1") and all the blue stuff wouldn't turn pink-ish for no reason.


    EDIT: Okay, he'd have blue socks but still.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    This would be extremely simple to do (I'd just have to run his art through my palette converter) but why bother? It takes out a shade of red, which I never really liked about the KiS1 look, and as said the super/hyper palette would screw things up (all sorts of stuff use those reds).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    If it would be so easy... why not? I mean, it would be just one "Red Knuckles with blue flickies" option among so many others...
     
  8. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    It would screw up Super Knuckles.
     
  9. The KKM

    The KKM

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    <!--quoteo(post=392511:date=Jan 6 2010, 02:43 AM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 6 2010, 02:43 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392511">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=392460:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:15 AM:name=Koi Kami Mauro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koi Kami Mauro @ Jan 6 2010, 12:15 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392460">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=392459:date=Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM:name=Dark Sonic)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Jan 6 2010, 12:10 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392459">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Agreed.

    Where's that guy who made those awesome Sally sprites? He could whip up a good Amy sprite sheet most likely... as well as a proper Tails standing sprite that doesn't blatantly look like it was taken from Sonic 2.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Or he could just use Deebs' sheet.
    <a href="http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5417/wips.png" target="_blank">http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5417/wips.png</a>
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    While my first reaction to this was, of course, "why the fuck didn't I know about this sheet before?", it still doesn't include the air attack sprites that I had to create (and thus presently look like shit). Nor does it have the dozens of rotating poses. When someone gives me a sheet that has absolutely every sprite I need, I'll take the time to get them all in game. Until then, screw it.

    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Put what you can from Deebs' sheet, tell me what you need, I'll whip it up. air attack and rotating like in an air vent, is it?
     
  10. ICEknight

    ICEknight

    Researcher Researcher
    <!--quoteo(post=392538:date=Jan 5 2010, 11:51 PM:name=Aquaslash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aquaslash @ Jan 5 2010, 11:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392538">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would screw up Super Knuckles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->He has already done more difficult things than changing a cycling palette, you know.
     
  11. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=392601:date=Jan 6 2010, 01:50 PM:name=Koi Kami Mauro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koi Kami Mauro @ Jan 6 2010, 01:50 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392601">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Put what you can from Deebs' sheet, tell me what you need, I'll whip it up. air attack and rotating like in an air vent, is it?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    It's probably more than you think ;)

    Here are the current animations for ground and air attacks:

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    (ignore transparency, SonMapEd doesn't have an option to disable that AFAIK)

    Deebs' sheet does have a ground attack, but it looks rather extravagant. I wouldn't mind if you put the hammer further out than in the current sprites as she does need more range with that.
    The air attack should be based off her falling pose. Feel free to make more than 3 jumping/landing sprites as well, they will be used for the spring too and there are 12 of those in S3K.

    For everything else, see Sonic's sprites:
    Rotation: $31-$3C
    Rotation: $3D-$48
    Rotation: $49-$54
    Rotation: $55-$5B
    Rotation: $5C-$61
    Rotation: $62-$68
    Rotation: $69-$77
    Climbing monkey bars: $80-$85
    Hurt: $8C-$8D (Deebs' sheet has one frame, two are needed)
    Hanging onto something diagonally: $8F
    Hanging onto something, swinging and pressing against wall: $90-$93 (sheet has $90, so I need the other three)
    Braking: $9D-$A0
    Balancing on edge: $A1-$A3 and $A4-$A6. There are some sprites in the sheet I could /probably/ use for this, but I'm not sure if they'd work well:

    [​IMG]

    Drowning: $A9
    Hanging on to a pole in a water tunnel: $AA-$AB
    Breathing an air bubble: $AC
    Pushing: $B6-B9
    Waiting: $BB-$BE This isn't the full waiting animation, but the sheet already has the rest of them
    Rotation: $C8-$CF
    Transformation: $D2-$D6

    Well, that's that - took longer than I expected to list all those.
    I'm guessing the reason sprite sheets don't have all the frames you'd need in a game is they're usually made for sprite comics, which don't need those frames.

    <!--quoteo(post=392613:date=Jan 6 2010, 03:25 PM:name=ICEknight)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jan 6 2010, 03:25 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392613">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=392538:date=Jan 5 2010, 11:51 PM:name=Aquaslash)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Aquaslash @ Jan 5 2010, 11:51 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392538">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->It would screw up Super Knuckles.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->He has already done more difficult things than changing a cycling palette, you know.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    IME, the palette is the biggest hardware limitation on the Genesis.

    You can either have red flickies and red bubble shield icons, or you can have flashing red <strike>rings</strike> shoes, springs, fire shields and god knows how much else, along with Knuckles missing a shade from his body.

    I think I prefer the former, don't you?

    iow, and I don't want to have to say this again: There is no way Knuckles' palette line can retain the shades of blue from Sonic's.
    If you still want to argue, you can go try doing it yourself. I'm sure such an esoteric hack would make you famous.
     
  12. The KKM

    The KKM

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    @the list of stuff- most of that is already covered by Sonic Advance 3, so style editing will be easier. The rotations are the ones that will take the more time.

    Can you please, for no reason at all to this project, give me a full list of Sonic's animations? I want to make a hack where I use Sonic 2's Sonic instead of Sonic 3. Hey, if it is easy, you could even try to put it in this project?

    EDIT:
    <a href="http://img11.imageshack.us/img11/5417/wips.png" target="_blank">It adds the monkey bar animations.</a>

    A more updated sheet. I'd suggest, if using, credit to "Deebs, Ninja Racoon and the Mod. Gen. Amy spriters", as Ninja Racoon is doing a lot of this. Tell em which ones you still need now, and if you feel like it, <a href="http://z10.invisionfree.com/mfs/index.php?showtopic=234&st=0" target="_blank">this is the link to the topic where this sheet is being made. Registration needed.</a>
     
  13. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <a href="http://freetexthost.com/h2nwyj1ezs" target="_blank">List of all S&K Sonic animations.</a>

    Please edit that sheet out of your post; it's enormous (and that goes for the previous sheet too). Glancing at it, it doesn't look like anything has been added compared to the last one anyway.

    Anyway, I don't want to have to be keeping track of updates to a sprite sheet. I offered to update the in-game sprites once someone gives me the art for them, but not to go out of my way to do that - I'm sure you can see for yourself if any of the sprites I need are in that sheet!

    Obviously I'll credit whoever's work I use; this applies to anything, not just Amy. =P
     
  14. The KKM

    The KKM

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    The sheet has the climbing monkey bars animation already, plus the diagonal. Edited to link.
     
  15. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    If you look closely you'll see it doesn't, actually. What I assume you are referring to is simply a rotation around the Y axis of her holding on to a bar, which was also in the previous sheet. The monkey bar animation involves the player taking a hand off one bar and holding the other, and then doing the same thing again with the other hand.

    It took me a little while to realize that those sprites weren't in that sheet, too. Compare the sprites using SonMapEd.
     
  16. Xeric

    Xeric

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    S3K Mighty Sheet
    <!--quoteo(post=392634:date=Jan 6 2010, 05:37 PM:name=Koi Kami Mauro)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Koi Kami Mauro @ Jan 6 2010, 05:37 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392634">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->The sheet has the climbing monkey bars animation already, plus the diagonal. Edited to link.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    <a href="http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6305/amyhelp.png" target="_blank">http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/6305/amyhelp.png</a>

    This could be of some help to you. I crossed out the spin dash sprites because Amy can't spindash, she can only Run-dash( the 3-framed animation to the left of the spindash).

    Nice work, by the way. Big fan of hacks with Amy in. <3
     
  17. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    <!--quoteo(post=392673:date=Jan 6 2010, 08:27 PM:name=Xeric)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Xeric @ Jan 6 2010, 08:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392673">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Amy can't spindash, she can only Run-dash( the 3-framed animation to the left of the spindash).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    She can't do that either. =P

    Thanks for assembling the spritesheet, but I'm still going to wait for the rest of the sprites before I put them in.

    In other news, I've implemented the life icon, signpost and results screen text for Amy, plus removing the "MILES" references and fixing the 04 Knuckles + Tails slot so that they show up as Knuckles.

    [​IMG]

    Here's the playability status for Amy so far:
    AIZ - Completable, but if you try to go into Knuckles' mid-boss arena you'll die.
    HCZ - Can't get past the area at the start of HCZ2 due to no spindash. If you debug past that though, you can complete the zone. I have plans to get around this, but don't want to say what they are =P
    MGZ - Completable, but oh god those spinning tops are buggy. Sometimes they work fine, other times they lock you in place and don't let you jump out, so you have to reset (or wait for a time over, or exit with Start+A if you used the level select).
    CNZ - Completable. Nothing seems to be wrong with this zone at all!
    ICZ - Can't smash the ICZ breakable walls yet, so obviously this isn't completable. Also, you start at the top of the mountain but don't get to snowboard. Like HCZ, I have an idea on how to change the intro for her.
    LBZ - Can't destroy the red wall triggers yet, so you get blocked by the red walls. If you use Tails to destroy them, or debug past them, you can complete the zone if you choose to fight Knuckles' set of bosses in act 2, but the game will crash if you try to jump into the empty eggpod waiting after the first Sonic boss.
    MHZ - Haven't tested act 1, but the game crashes when Knuckles turns on the fans at the start of act 2.
    FBZ - Completable. No problems. But damn that boss is hard.
    SOZ - You can't break the sand walls that pop out of the ground, so you get stuck.
    LRZ - You can't destroy the projectile-shooting door-opening trigger, so you get stuck.
    HPZ - Crashes just before Robotnik comes down to steal the ME. The Knuckles boss fight is rather easy though, as you hurt him just by touching him.
    SSZ Sonic version - Well, it works up to the Metropolis boss, but then I died and couldn't be bothered to try again. :v:
    SSZ Knuckles version - Crashes as soon as you pass the eggpod's x-position.
    DEZ - haven't tested yet.
    DEZ final boss act - Completable, but it crashes after you win, just like if you fight it with Knuckles in ordinary S3K.
    Doomsday - Works fine, but with glitchy graphics obviously.
     
  18. Chaos Knux

    Chaos Knux

    Stable avatar temporary. Randomizer site down. Misfit
    <!--quoteo(post=392705:date=Jan 6 2010, 05:10 PM:name=Hayate)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hayate @ Jan 6 2010, 05:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=392705">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Here's the playability status for Amy so far...
    ...LBZ - Can't destroy the red wall triggers yet, so you get blocked by the red walls. If you use Tails to destroy them, or debug past them, you can complete the zone if you choose to fight Knuckles' set of bosses in act 2, but the game will crash if you try to jump into the empty eggpod waiting after the first Sonic boss...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->Did I read that right? You even made a Amy+Tails slot? I don't recall you mentioning that before, holy crap that is awesome! This may be the best S3K hack ever made. <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>.. not that that means much considering how few there are =P </span>
    Anticipation levels elevated to 73%.
     
  19. Hayate

    Hayate

    Tech Member
    Yep, anyone can have Tails follow them.

    ...Except for Tails, that is.

    Well, there is that Lava Reef glitch in the original game that gives you Tailless Tails + Tails... but that doesn't stay after you clear the zone.
     
  20. Aquaslash

    Aquaslash

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    Amy can't use jump + hammer to break things in the air?
     
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