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Sonic 3 Complete

Discussion in 'Engineering & Reverse Engineering' started by Tiddles, Dec 25, 2009.

  1. RattleMan

    RattleMan

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    <!--quoteo(post=441863:date=Apr 13 2010, 01:06 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Apr 13 2010, 01:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441863">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=441846:date=Apr 13 2010, 02:38 AM:name=RattleMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RattleMan @ Apr 13 2010, 02:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441846">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Was playing this awesome hack tonight when I accidentally ran into a bug. I reproduced the bug in this video: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQYJJSCJ8V4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQYJJSCJ8V4</a> . To do it you must initiate the transformation and immediately de-transform, both immediately after the fire-wall sound goes away.

    What's interesting is two-fold in that not only does the "transformed" music play while not transformed, it plays the original S3&K tune! I'm using the default settings (no patches).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If you were using the default version, wouldn't the Sonic 3 miniboss theme have played?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ah, I figured out why. I was using a save-state from the wrong game to get a completed file select. However, the "detransformed-transformed" music still applies.
     
  2. Solaris Paradox

    Solaris Paradox

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    I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
    <!--quoteo(post=441868:date=Apr 13 2010, 04:22 AM:name=RattleMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RattleMan @ Apr 13 2010, 04:22 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441868">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=441863:date=Apr 13 2010, 01:06 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Apr 13 2010, 01:06 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441863">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=441846:date=Apr 13 2010, 02:38 AM:name=RattleMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RattleMan @ Apr 13 2010, 02:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441846">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Was playing this awesome hack tonight when I accidentally ran into a bug. I reproduced the bug in this video: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQYJJSCJ8V4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQYJJSCJ8V4</a> . To do it you must initiate the transformation and immediately de-transform, both immediately after the fire-wall sound goes away.

    What's interesting is two-fold in that not only does the "transformed" music play while not transformed, it plays the original S3&K tune! I'm using the default settings (no patches).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    If you were using the default version, wouldn't the Sonic 3 miniboss theme have played?
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    Ah, I figured out why. I was using a save-state from the wrong game to get a completed file select. However, the "detransformed-transformed" music still applies.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Using a save state from S3&K switches the boss music? ...Huh...

    You wouldn't need to do that, anyway. The level select and all-emerald codes would do just as well.
     
  3. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

    Arriving four years late. Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=441870:date=Apr 13 2010, 09:38 AM:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox @ Apr 13 2010, 09:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441870">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->You wouldn't need to do that, anyway. The level select and all-emerald codes would do just as well.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Yes, but you need to TYPE those in, which can take a good ten seconds!
     
  4. amphobius

    amphobius

    doing more important things with my life Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=441684:date=Apr 12 2010, 11:31 PM:name=Chaos Rush)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chaos Rush @ Apr 12 2010, 11:31 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441684">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wish Sonic rom hacking is more similar to Pokemon, with Pokemon you can easily convert an midi to hex and then just import it straight to the rom, and it would sound fine (as long as you have the right voicegroups and such).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    But what is ROM Hacking without challenge?

    Besides, these games are a decade and a half old—Pokémon Gen III only is around 5 or something.

    On my thoughts on the Super theme—I think if anything, the Sonic 2 Super Theme would be a better replacement. Then again, that's not from Sonic 3, so yeah. :/
    Though the alternative for no repetitive song in the background when Super pleases me, so I can hear the songs I like. The only change, if any that I want, is that it doesn't speed up. It might not make sense, but when there's nice songs like Launch Base or Sandopolis 2 (hurr) I like the slower tempo.

    EDIT: If you want a complete save file, use the other SRAM file you have. Worked fine for me, and it plays normally.
     
  5. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Get in an accident and wake up in 1973
    <!--quoteo(post=441760:date=:name=Solaris Paradox)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Solaris Paradox) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441760">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Ran into a music bug whilst playing in Mushroom Hill Zone just now (still am). I got an extra life while invincible, the jingle played as the invincibility was wearing off, and the Invincibility music is now playing in place of the level music.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I've seen this before in Angel Island... I found it pretty difficult to reproduce, but I think I concluded that it's possible in the original too, since I've done very little that touches this directly. The only Complete-specific thing I can think it might be is it getting tangled up with the timer that tries to reset the correct base music speed after a 1up. If you happen to get a savestate that it's fairly easy to reproduce from, do send it over, that might help considerably (it'd probably have to be before actually picking up the 1up to get a great deal from it though).

    <!--quoteo(post=441846:date=Apr 13 2010, 07:38 AM:name=RattleMan)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RattleMan @ Apr 13 2010, 07:38 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441846">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Was playing this awesome hack tonight when I accidentally ran into a bug. I reproduced the bug in this video: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQYJJSCJ8V4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JQYJJSCJ8V4</a> . To do it you must initiate the transformation and immediately de-transform, both immediately after the fire-wall sound goes away, which is pretty difficult to time. Ignore the S&K invincible and miniboss music as I was using an S3&K file-select savestate.

    I'm more intrigued into why this bug happens rather than running into a bug.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->I can only think that the normal level music resumption code is kicking in in the middle of the detransformation, so that you're briefly considered invincible but not super, which would cause the wrong music to resume - or some similar unexpected combination of the status not being the same in between two checks. You can cause similar but longer-lived musical anomalies, amongst other things, using debug by giving yourself a super monitor in the Angel Island intro scene and waiting for Knuckles to semi-detransform you.

    By the way, DalekSam is right: copying an SRAM (.srm) file is the best way to bring save games over. Savestates from S3&K mostly work for now, with some music issues, but those issues are likely to get more severe in the future, and there's no guarantee that other things won't break. (Savestates in the level select are already likely to crash and burn.)

    <!--quoteo(post=441667:date=:name=RGamer2009)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (RGamer2009) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441667">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->On that note, can you make a possible patch so that the S3 Invincible Music is played when Invincible, but the S&K Invincible theme plays when Super?<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->The problem with this, and any other requests that involve use of more tracks than are currently used in game, is that I'm limited by the number of available sound IDs allocated to music at the moment, and it'd take a lot of time, relative to other fixes, for me to get much into fiddling with the Z80 sound driver. There is one reusable slot at the moment - $32, the game complete jingle, is not used, so I could replace that with one other track, but that would make any tracks requiring an extra tune mutually exclusive and a bit of a pain to manage.

    I'll have a look at making super use invincibility music or normal speed level tracks as an option later on, but I'm definitely making no promises there because there are a few subtleties to the current setup - there are quite a few places where super sneakers and super powers are now sharing logic.
     
  6. roxahris

    roxahris

    Everyone's a hypocrite. Take my word for it. Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=441684:date=Apr 13 2010, 08:01 AM:name=Chaos Rush)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Chaos Rush @ Apr 13 2010, 08:01 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=441684">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->I wish Sonic rom hacking is more similar to Pokemon, with Pokemon you can easily convert an midi to hex and then just import it straight to the rom, and it would sound fine (as long as you have the right voicegroups and such).<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->You speak as if there was no xm4smps, or any other form of music editor. Of course, it seems most people are too lazy to bother with XM files, and want programs that can take whole MIDIs and do the conversion for them. <span style='color:#000000;background:#000000'>I am not a big fan of MML-based formats.</span>
    In any case, feel free to suggest a song that would fit into the limitations of SMPS and S3K.
     
  7. This hack makes me incredibly happy :D

    (And bumping but whatever. I've been gone for a while, cut me some slack :p)
     
  8. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    Get in an accident and wake up in 1973
    <!--quoteo(post=454001:date=:name=shobiz)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (shobiz) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454001">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->This hack makes me incredibly happy :D<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Thank you kindly - it's great to hear that from you in particular, since I would never have got started with any of this if I hadn't found the SSRG thread with your sample code for tweaking the music pointers in memory. :)
     
  9. Hanoch

    Hanoch

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    So are you going to try to import the PC version midis to SMPS, and have some kind of options menu to let us choose the soundtrack (PC/Genesis) I think it's possible to do it, if you understand how absolute pointers work in asm.
     
  10. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
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    <!--quoteo(post=454169:date=May 13 2010, 02:55 PM:name=Hanoch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hanoch @ May 13 2010, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454169">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So are you going to try to import the PC version midis to SMPS, and have some kind of options menu to let us choose the soundtrack (PC/Genesis) I think it's possible to do it, if you understand how absolute pointers work in asm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This might be the most awesome thing ever, if it's possible.
     
  11. Namagem

    Namagem

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    <!--quoteo(post=454176:date=May 13 2010, 04:10 PM:name=MainMemory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MainMemory @ May 13 2010, 04:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454176">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=454169:date=May 13 2010, 02:55 PM:name=Hanoch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hanoch @ May 13 2010, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454169">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So are you going to try to import the PC version midis to SMPS, and have some kind of options menu to let us choose the soundtrack (PC/Genesis) I think it's possible to do it, if you understand how absolute pointers work in asm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This might be the most awesome thing ever, if it's possible.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree, but why? The PC version songs were AWFUL. Believe me, the PC version was the first place I ever played sonic 3. I stopped playing at carnival night, because the music is THAT bad.
     
  12. MainMemory

    MainMemory

    Kate the Wolf Tech Member
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    Because everybody has different opinions, like with Sonic CD's soundtracks. I like both soundtracks for S3K, and I would love to hear Genesis versions of the changed tracks from the PC version (if they haven't already been made).
     
  13. VB.NET

    VB.NET

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    <!--quoteo(post=454274:date=May 14 2010, 12:29 PM:name=Namagem)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namagem @ May 14 2010, 12:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454274">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=454176:date=May 13 2010, 04:10 PM:name=MainMemory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MainMemory @ May 13 2010, 04:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454176">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=454169:date=May 13 2010, 02:55 PM:name=Hanoch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hanoch @ May 13 2010, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454169">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So are you going to try to import the PC version midis to SMPS, and have some kind of options menu to let us choose the soundtrack (PC/Genesis) I think it's possible to do it, if you understand how absolute pointers work in asm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This might be the most awesome thing ever, if it's possible.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree, but why? The PC version songs were AWFUL. Believe me, the PC version was the first place I ever played sonic 3. I stopped playing at carnival night, because the music is THAT bad.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What the? The PC version Carnival Night is way better than the Genesis one! It's nowhere near as annoying or 'awful.' And I played the PC version first too! (Just my honest opinion ;D)
     
  14. TheKazeblade

    TheKazeblade

    "Our Life is More than a Side-Effect" Member
    <!--quoteo(post=454329:date=May 14 2010, 02:19 AM:name=VB.NET)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (VB.NET @ May 14 2010, 02:19 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454329">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=454274:date=May 14 2010, 12:29 PM:name=Namagem)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Namagem @ May 14 2010, 12:29 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454274">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=454176:date=May 13 2010, 04:10 PM:name=MainMemory)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (MainMemory @ May 13 2010, 04:10 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454176">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec--><!--quoteo(post=454169:date=May 13 2010, 02:55 PM:name=Hanoch)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Hanoch @ May 13 2010, 02:55 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454169">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->So are you going to try to import the PC version midis to SMPS, and have some kind of options menu to let us choose the soundtrack (PC/Genesis) I think it's possible to do it, if you understand how absolute pointers work in asm.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    This might be the most awesome thing ever, if it's possible.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    I agree, but why? The PC version songs were AWFUL. Believe me, the PC version was the first place I ever played sonic 3. I stopped playing at carnival night, because the music is THAT bad.
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    What the? The PC version Carnival Night is way better than the Genesis one! It's nowhere near as annoying or 'awful.' And I played the PC version first too! (Just my honest opinion ;D)
    <!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

    Same here, and I also agree. The original Genesis version was a bit too stereotypically carnival for me. The PC version of it just has more character, in my opinion.
     
  15. Tiddles

    Tiddles

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    It falls into the "Would be really cool but I won't get around to it for a long time, if at all" category. I'm not sure whether I'm musical enough to do a good job of it, apart from anything else. It's definitely something I've thought about though, and would be a fantastic option to have. I wouldn't lose any sleep if someone else made this happen first though, and likewise I'd be prepared to work with any SMPS geniuses if they wanted to produce something to integrate here.

    Space in the right areas might be a bit of an issue, but it shouldn't be insurmountable.

    If you've thus far dismissed the PC compositions as utterly terrible, take a look at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48wugEUoPpo" target="_blank">this video</a>, in which they're played out using an MD soundfont. Even though I still mostly prefer the originals, I think this makes some of them sound a lot better. Not that this is necessarily how they might sound after SMPS conversion, but I think it shows that the compositions have potential.
     
  16. Glaber

    Glaber

    Has Beaten Sonic Genesis for GBA Oldbie
    Potential? I want mp3's of them!
     
  17. <!--quoteo(post=454466:date=May 14 2010, 03:57 PM:name=Tiddles)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Tiddles @ May 14 2010, 03:57 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=454466">[​IMG]</a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->If you've thus far dismissed the PC compositions as utterly terrible, take a look at <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=48wugEUoPpo" target="_blank">this video</a>, in which they're played out using an MD soundfont. Even though I still mostly prefer the originals, I think this makes some of them sound a lot better. Not that this is necessarily how they might sound after SMPS conversion, but I think it shows that the compositions have potential.<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->
    WOW. This has shown the Midi music in a new light for me.

    I...LIKE those tunes!!! I want MP3s!

    I'm in shock how much BETTER they sound with Genesis sounds!

    Amazing how a simple change in music sounds can make it all the more awesome.
     
  18. Robjoe

    Robjoe

    Member
    ... Was I the only one sitting through that video frowning at each song? LBZ1 sounded decent, but the rest sounded like they had poor voice selection, and some, like CNZ1, seemed to miss parts of the melody entirely.

    I know the standard FM/MIDI versions sound a little basic and dry, but I actually like them, and would much rather hear more faithful SMPS compositions, rather than some quick soundfont work.
     
  19. Ashura96

    Ashura96

    HEROIC VERSE Oldbie
    They sound alright, but they could certainly sound much better. Still that video was something I've been waiting to see...practically forever it seems.
     
  20. Ravenfreak

    Ravenfreak

    Is actually a guy. Tech Member
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    IMO, I still don't care for the PC songs, even in the Soundfont. I guess I don't really care for the melodies of the songs. :\