Echoing this. I love these progress updates. They brighten up my time on Sonic Retro and I find the vivid and beautiful progress images truly lovely to see; but what would be far more awesome is if the team just went silent until they had something more substantial to show. I'd love to see this thread bumped one day with a couple of minutes of footage of Hill Top Zone for example. I understand the team are working hard and are probably not at that point yet but I'd prefer a more substantial update as opposed to constant incremental ones. Everyone kept up to date is fantastic but I think footage or something more major is what we're all far more excited to see. Glad and excited the project's moving forward and making exceptional progress but I'd much prefer it if the next update was more substantial.
More is better, of course... But I'm happy with whatever we get. Seems like a couple months go by between updates, would it really be better with a single update every few years? That doesn't mean you'd get gameplay anyway. just odd some of the comments...
Sonic 2 takes about an hour-plus to rip through if you're semi-decent at it. Why spoil the surprise fully? I like the little teasers and knowing about the artistic process that goes behind all the little pieces. Don't doubt that there's a lot more going on behind the scenes. We've waited this long already anyway. Does anyone from the dev team even go on this forum anymore?
Exactly. Sometimes I feel like they're trying to please EVERYONE. You won't. Period. I get that you need feedback, but sometimes you just have to make a decision and run with it. Some people will HATE you went with aqua blue instead of light blue balls blue. You guys aren't the only one guilty of this. I mean hell, the movie industry is the biggest offender nowadays. I'm just asking to maybe work harder (NOT saying you aren't) at moving forward with the project, instead of trying to get feedback for every single pixel. I know its hard, and some will hate it, but most will love it.
I'm not so sure that it's for feedback per-se. The good thing about these updates they've been giving are that they explain their reasoning and other possibilities and you can tell that actual work goes into them. I think, more than anything, this approach is just to make people following the project aware that it's still being worked on as opposed to going completely quiet for months and months at a time, and also keeping the team accountable to keep working on it as opposed to just losing interest and letting it fade. This approach is already billions of times better than the previous Sonic 2 HD attempt.
Are they asking for feedback? I though they were just being nice and doing a little media. I don't think they intend to make further changes once these logs are posted. Why are we telling them what they should do or how they should conduct themselves? Do they check these forums? I wouldn't...
I personally enjoy whatever updates we get. It's interesting to see how the work that goes into each asset and I appreciate the time and effort they put into each blog update. Also really like the tree, though unless you have a lot of others assets wigglying around a lot, the wiggles for the tree would seem a little fast. They imply it's insanely windy outside, which is fine. It just hope that's portrayed consistently across the level. Also glad they made the trunk interesting instead of the dull trunk from the original game. Creative liberties in the right places can make some of the art be far more interesting, especially since the original assets suffered from creative restrictions from the Genesis hardware and likely time restraints. Doesn't help that in terms of the effort that went into the original art assets for Sonic, Hill Top Zone was probably the laziest designed level in the game.
Yeah if the dozen or so super talented artists on the team still needed public feedback then I wouldn't want to live on this planet anymore. If there was an art critique out there that knows better than them and is willing to spend their time helping with the art, it begs the question why are they not on the team in the first place. Its not like they don't accept submissions or anything, judjing from the facebook page. Because its #Retro. The mothership is entitled to tell everyone what to do.
No one straight up said they shouldn't. They were merely suggestions that they do not have to take. You could also tell me to shove it and just not check the forums if I want it to be a surprise. These are merely all opinions. Feedback's feedback man, no one has to take it. I conduct my business in a different manner. Neither is right or wrong.
Only there is a right and wrong way to conduct ones self... Heaven forbid the entire Sonic fanbase be written off as unappeasable with unrealistic expectations. I guess my point wasn't to suggest that we shouldn't give suggestions or feedback, it was just that people ought to temper same with appreciation and respect. What the Sonic 2 HD team have done and are doing is a great achievement and deserves commendment (not to say people aren't showing that too). We can treat the internet and these forums like an open sewer, but don't we want our opinions and feedback to have merit? Or else why offer them... At the end of the day all I'm saying is... some of the things people say sounds unappreciative and extremely entitled, like a spoiled child criticizing their parents for taking them to the Bahamas instead of Jamaica. Hopefully, if the team is watching, they don't mind people acting like self-described “asshole” (though it's not my intent to single anyone out). Because I know if I was committing to a huge long term project and had to deal with people, who contribute nothing tangibly constantly insulting my work, I could eventually be dissuaded from continuing… AND NO ONE WANTS THAT TO HAPPEN (I think…). I personally would pay $500 for a console version of this game. What is being done here is of extreme value, and yet they receive zero compensation, it's extremely generous of them. Let's all remember to give credit where it's due, so that just maybe the team members will take our opinions to heart, rather than turning a deaf ear. Is all.
If you can't take criticism, don't put your work out there. If a little constructive criticism dissuades you from completing something you eventually intend to release for general consumption, you need to quit now. It's absolutely ridiculous to suggest that everyone has to be nice to you if you're doing something public. Are you suggesting that nobody can say they don't like something without being an entitled jerk and possibly dissuading the team from continuing? If they don't want feedback and just want a bunch of people to tell them how awesome they are, then my interest in this project will plummet faster than it already is. I'm not interested in the product of a yes-man circlejerk. I'd much rather they keep quiet about it and just work hard rather than continuing to release little bits and pieces that nobody is supposed to critique, if that's the case.
Asking for it in the sense that if you go around punching old ladies in the face, you're "asking for it". If you post something on the internet you'll probably get feedback - everyone has opinions. But given that the Sonic 2 HD team don't want to hear any of that noise because of the "too many cooks spoil the brew" thing, the only reason stuff must be getting posted is to get attention and build up hype. But I think there are limits to that, because the thing people probably want to see is... an engine. The thing that was missing last time. It's very typical of artists and animators to build fancy websites to show of their trees, but I think we can establish they're quite good at being artists and/or animators. A chain is only as strong as the weakest link - given that the vast majority of fangames are never finished, I'm struggling to get behind Sonic 2 HD when all it's showing is a few sprites here and there, particularly when there's not much point in talking about them.
I have worked on a project almost entirely myself. I am also doing a second almost entirely myself. I took a LOT of heat from it too. Funnier part is, if you say anything criticizing my work with your next post that I'm sure you'll respond to, you'll completely nullify your rant. I wasn't trying to start a fight, it was merely a suggestion. Like I said, they can take it or leave it. I work differently, so do others and I respect that. No way was anyone here being disrespectful to the team. Nor, do I think we should praise them as a God for allowing us to view their work.
I apologize everyone for the part I played in steering this conversation off course. I've stated repeatedly that people should be allowed to offer opinions and criticism, I just thought they should do so respectfully. My question as to whether the S2HD team is looking for feedback is a separate question. I'm not sure why this became so emotional. I'm happy you have your own projects on the go HEZ, the community thrives on personal contributions from people like you. All work gets better with constructive criticism, both Sonic 2 HD and your own endeavors. Does anyone know if any progress has been made on acquiring a programmer yet?
They did say on their facebook page they have couple of programmers and an engine. You guys sure want to have this thread locked, do you? We've established one party wants to see periodic changelogs and admire them. And another party who feels like the changelogs amount to EVERYTHING the team has done so far, not just an excerpt. And they feel their sole purpose is getting a feedback. Remember how before the Alpha there was a silence for years and everyone was angry because of that? Well make up your mind, do you want updates or not?
Aerosol is making a point that everyone needs to have think skin when you put your work in the public domain, if you can't do that then don't do it. That's the way things are and will never change. This is the real world and we all have to deal with it.
Do we really have to still have an S2HD whinefest when we're not even hosting the bloody project any more? =P
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