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Discussion in 'Sonic 2 HD (Archive)' started by Athelstone, Apr 24, 2008.

  1. Chimpo

    Chimpo

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    They can just go back to playing the Genesis version then.
     
  2. steveswede

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    That's an interesting thought.

    Another thing I thought of was to have spikes come up from the ground when the pillars are fully up. But I feel that would be too much.
     
  3. Gambit

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    Seeing as how we aren't even to a problem area yet I can't really say, but I do know that we have enough creative juices to get something more interesting than a flat border on the screen, and we have at least a couple traditionalists on the staff as well so we always like to run ideas past them first. I also know that LOst in particular is always thinking about speed runners so if he sees a potential issue with screwing them over I know he'll be the first to discuss it.
     
  4. T.Q.

    T.Q.

    The Sims 2, Tim Drake [Robin] Member
    Exactly.

    So, we screw the speedrunners by having a boss arena that fits 16:9 screens.

    Or, we screw the traditionalists by adding something to block Sonic from going past the ARZ boss totems (e.g. some visible object).

    Or, we screw "logic" and place an invisible barrier that would confuse the player for a few seconds, and accepting that the barrier is there (as a few people recommended).

    Or, we screw programming for the bosses so that they won't need to be adjusted to 16:9, but instead shrink the height to make the game 16:10 (or 16:9).

    Or do something else that screws other people. We certainly can't please everyone.
     
  5. nineko

    nineko

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    Best idea ever, actually. I second this.
     
  6. Drex

    Drex

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    If you agree then why do you keep repeating your same "point"?



    Anyway, S2HD staff, I've been assuming that this game will have 2 viewing modes 4:3 and 16:9. Is this true?
     
  7. Lizam

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    Although this could disrupt the strategy of using spin dashes to hit eggman from the top of the totems as you're likely to fall of the side of the totem after bouncing back.
     
  8. Here's an idea I'm not sure I like, but I'm gonna present anyway:

    Robotnik has placed his gizmos across the levels in order to hold Sonic back right? We could use an extra gizmo, similar to the laser barrier in WFZ. Two of these would be present in every boss arena that doesn't have reasonable constraints (like CNZ does), and they'd light up when Sonic is in place, and switch off once Robotnik is defeated.

    This would kinda explain why the camera locks during boss fights, which would be Robotnik intentionally trapping Sonic in order to defeat him. I think this is a valid solution because it has actually been used in a later level, so technically we wouldn't be making anything up, just reusing that gimmick in other parts of the game.

    I'd still just like the boss arenas to be slightly extended, but if sonic is to be constrained I think that this might be an interesting way to go about it.
     
  9. Gambit

    Gambit

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    I actually don't know off hand, I'd have to ask LOst.
     
  10. T.Q.

    T.Q.

    The Sims 2, Tim Drake [Robin] Member
    As some others have suggested in the past, we should ignore the majority of speedrunner's and traditionalist's wishes. My point is the staff should explicitly state what these traditionalists and speedrunners will not have in this Sonic 2 HD project. I can already see new music, 16:9 aspects, and new HUD as something that can be explicitly stated against the wishes of traditionalists. Now what about speedrunners? Surely the game's physics will be one thing against the preferences of the speedrunners (and again 16:9 ratios).

    We shouldn't have this project slow down because it'll tick-off those speedrunners or traditionalists. That's (unfortuantely) the impression I'm getting from the staff. My impression is that the staff is slowing down progress to continue to catering to speedrunners and traditionalists, and that the staff isn't willing to take other liberties in order to advance the project (e.g. we will use laser barriers for the non-scrolling bosses, to prevent reprogramming of those bosses). Development is becoming too long. It's almost been 2 years. Patience has run out for quite a few people (which is one factor explaining the lack of contributions).

    Sure one person is programming it (and that person has a life outside here), and it's been recommended to spread the source code so that other programmers add on to it. But no, that idea is struck out because of proprietary reasons, and fear of inferior designs being released by others.

    Now yes, programming in both aspect ratios means more work on fixing the bosses, and more time it'll take before this game ever gets finished. If I had to see some things sacrificed to see this project move faster, I'd be willing to sacrifice 16:9 aspect ratio, Knuckles in the game (and even Tails), and online multiplayer options. What would you folks (not just staff) sacrifice in order to see progress sooner than later?

    There's no way to make the bosses for the game the same in order to please most people, unless they're seperately programmed.

    If it's 4:3 in a 16:9 screen people would complain "oh I hate the black bars, oh I hate the coloured bars, oh I hate borders with those designs, oh I don't like those poles, oh I don't like invisible borders, it's too distracting, it's too ugly, we have to consider the speedrunners feelings, oh it's not in the original game" blah, blah, blah. Some ideas are good, but I don't see that staff saying, "yeah we'll use [idea's plan], just until a better idea comes up".

    So far there's no solution to the 4:3 issue, unless the staff does have a stance on it, and will keep that stance until programming (or until a new idea that most people like comes). If that's the case, what, explicitly, is the current stance on ARZ's boss (e.g. "we'll just totem poles outside the boss arena")? What's the staff's stance, also explicitly, on the other non-scrolling bosses (especially CPZ, the 2nd zone)? What's the projected date that CPZ's zone and boss will be started? From what I understand, no coloured bars, no black bars, no extending boss arenas. For ARZ, yes to poles. Is this the staff's stance on the ARZ boss from now, until it's time to program the zone?

    Apologies for this irritating post. I wanted to vent my impatience and concern with the project while providing some solutions instead of being just critical. It's just every time something soon is coming out...it's exciting, it's something special, it's something we haven't seen, all these positive words. It brings up people's hopes, and then it goes back down or potentially lower after the reveal. Please, I hope that March 15th date is something serious, and not just something to look at.
     
  11. Hamneggs

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    Hey guys, I'm gonna go ahead and re-propose my theory of having some dynamic frosted glass sidebars, but also what T.Q. said makes perfect sense:


    This one freakin' issue is slowing everything down.

    Having a fat sonic isn't that bad, as from my tech demo impressions.

    Having the bosses changed will be a major difference.


    And the "Walk back in" idea is the best I have heard for ARZ, but what about everything else? The postulate brought forward by Tokumaru could be used for MCZ and perhaps CPZ,
    but everything else seems, well, not appropriate for either measure.


    P.S. Sonic will appear to move significantly faster if a standard 4:3 playfield is stretched to 16:9. That could be a pleasant side effect.
     
  12. steveswede

    steveswede

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    @T.Q.

    In all fairness, I don't think the project has slowed down because of these undecided areas like the aspect ratio. I do feel it's important to keep ideas flowing so when the time comes, nobody is panicking that something could be done better. This whole thing with the borders is old news and it's looked like we have gone round in circles with it not being resolved. All I think that is best is that we keep the ideas flowing so we can hit the nail on the head. It would also keep this forum active and it will give the sense of progress.

    One of the best ideas so far about ARZ is that walking through the posts if you are on the outside. With enough persistence of ideas, we should have a really good idea or ideas when the time comes.
     
  13. T.Q.

    T.Q.

    The Sims 2, Tim Drake [Robin] Member
    Okay, so at least with ARZ, walking through the posts is the top idea until a new/better/more comfortable idea comes up, correct? Is this what the staff (or a majority of...) agrees on, explicitly?
     
  14. steveswede

    steveswede

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    More so with me than anything else.
     
  15. Afti

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    Why not do the following?

    For 16:9/16:10 OUTSIDE OF BOSSES- Expanded visible area.

    For 16:9/16:10 DURING BOSSES- Borders come in on each side to bring it back to 4:3. The left one is snazzy art of the character being played (Sonic/Tails/Knuckles[?]) on a background of the matching color with their name overhead. The right one is snazzy art of the boss being fought on a cold, grey background with VS. [boss name] overhead.

    For two monitors, allow the right monitor to display a completely HUD-free view of the game, and the left to be a status screen.

    For three or more monitors, place a status screen on the rightmost monitor (or, if vertically stacked, the top) and have gameplay across the others. Call borders as needed for 16:9. Unused monitors can have a humorous pattern or something displayed.
     
  16. steveswede

    steveswede

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    Borders are not going to happen as stated before. Think of something better.
     
  17. Gambit

    Gambit

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    It could happen if we get some crazy shit going on for a boss title card that comes slamming in from both sides of the screen and shows a picture of the player's character/s and a picture of the boss that then moves off to the sides to frame the area.

    HEAVEN OR HELL? LET'S ROCK!
     
  18. Afti

    Afti

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    Color borders are half-assed.

    Big, beautiful art borders with nametags that slam into place when a boss fight starts? Not so half-assed.
     
  19. Vendettagainst

    Vendettagainst

    Apparently shooting kills things Member
    Yet still distracting and still unprofessional.

    Why don't you guys just stretch the shit? Or maybe crop it down to fit a widescreen.
     
  20. Covarr

    Covarr

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    Assuming you have the right special effects to transition something like this in, it could be pretty kickass. It could be similar to Smash Bros, the screen just before each battle in Classic mode, except only on the sides of the screen and persistent throughout the fight. Images either slam down (with sound effects) or slide in from the sides.

    Here's a quick mockup with shitty art. I suspect somebody with actual talent could do much better.
    [​IMG]

    Obviously, were such an idea implemented, it wouldn't be done in a half-assed way like this.

    I don't think it would be too distracting. Has anybody watched the Blu-Ray of Pinocchio? You can choose to replace the standard pillarboxing with art, that changes from scene to scene. It worked great:

    [​IMG]