Sonic Mania Plus (Consoles Physical; PC Digital) - Non-Leaks Thread

Is this thread even about Sonic Mania anymore? I can't believe how much you guys are talking about the continuity.

 

From my vague recollection of flaking in and out the topic:

• 
  [*]Why is Angel Island still in the sea?
  [*]<Sources from every other game>
  [*]Does Modern count anymore if we're talking about Mania?
  [*]-OTHER DIMENSION OTHER DIMENSION-
  [*][Insert Iizuka interview quotes here] [Sweating]
  [*]"What the heck is even Canon anymore?"
  [*] MICHAEL JACKSON INTENSIFIES
  [*]Tyson Hesse's Elevator is the key to all this
  [*]I've CRACKED THE DAVINCI CODE. SONIC BUBBLE BATH IS CANON.
  

It's been a wild ride but hopefully we're all on the same page now.

 

I'm pretty sure that they just didn't bother changing those sprites after they de-classicized Sonic's and added the green eyes. I mean, just look at this.

Well, of course the classic characters were from the past, since they still came from the Sonic 3 & Knuckles days, but from the other dimension's past.

 

There are far too many plotholes, and the creators gave less than a fraction of the thought that you did. The act of piecing together Sonic continuity is like trying to figure out a jigsaw puzzle created with some pieces replaced by that of other puzzles. You ain't ever fully solving it with all the pieces fitting properly.

Colorful animals (enough to create a rainbow, in fact) ripping off Samus' Morph Ball beat the shit outta robots because industrialization is evil. If you REALLY want a logical storyline, just take the Dragonball approach, throw your hands to the sky and claim alternate timelines. It worked for that franchise, and Sonic's already begun ripping them off... go all the way at this point.

 

retro wiki needs a theories tab

 

I'll be honest, if someone cared enough to pen it... I would care enough to sit and read it.

 

And then the next boss shows him in the modern attire, which means they did go to the effort of changing the appearance after a certain point.

So why didn't Tails call him the Sonic from the past, if it's the same concept?

 

Generations’ time travel created a separate universe Dragon Ball style. Maybe. Probably.

Sonic canon is kind of like Mario canon at this point. You can try and piece everything together but it's not all gonna fit without some mental gymnastics. Even then, chances are Sega will change what they consider canon and turn everything on its head again at some point.

 

Honestly, to me this is the easiest answer with the least amount of head scratching. It means Generations and Forces don't contradict eachother (Classic Sonic was both Past Sonic AND now a Sonic from Another Dimension). It also means Mania isn't bogged down by having to keep in line with any other sequels.

I've enjoyed reading everyone else's takes on it though, and at this point, it's so open to interpretation that everyone's sailing their own ship - waiting for another mis-worded Iizuka interview to whip up another shitstorm :v:

 

I'd ask why there's so much effort being put on fixing Sonic's canon for SEGA but this is the same community that spawned people who fixed the gameplay for SEGA so i probably shouldn't be surprised

 

I wonder how Mario handles all this "alternate reality/dimension/mario kart" BS......Oh wait, they don't actively fight against one another because Mario saving Peach tends to be self-contained with periodic callbacks (New Donk City) for those paying attention.

As with Forces, the issues in continuity stem from Sonic Team actually trying to have continuity between games. The adventure era wannabe RPG storytelling is where things break down because telling a grandiose story is harder than the Classic era "Sonic goes from zone to zone punching Eggman in the face". It becomes even worse when you try to actively connect games to one another (Mania to Forces for example).

Edit: Is it me or does a lot of Sonic's BS seem to stem from the Adventure era? No disrespect to the Adventure trilogy but that seems to be where things start breaking down.

 

Give them time, Zelda has the alternate timelines, Pokémon has alternate timelines, Star Fox has alternate dimensions, etc.

 

Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam established that the "Paper Mario" universe exists within a magic book contained in the regular Mario universe.

 

...No, it's because that boss and the new modern styled running animation were made after the prototype.

 

Actually Shigeru Miyamoto has said many times that mario games are "timeless" and don't have a real canon to them. This becomes apparent when you realize that the Super Mario Bros. movie is actually holds some weight as this quote shows:

“This is an old story, but Hollywood did a film version of the Mario Bros. many years back. There was a scene in the script where they needed a last name for the characters. Somebody suggested that, because they were the Mario Bros., their last name should be Mario. So, they made him “Mario Mario.” I heard this and laughed rather loudly. Of course, this was ultimately included in the film. Based on the film, that's [how] their names ended up. But, just like Mickey Mouse doesn't really have a last name, Mario is really just Mario and Luigi is really just Luigi.”

https://nintendoeverything.com/miyamoto-says-marios-full-name-is-mario-mario/

So, Miyamoto dicking around seems to make a better continuity then actively trying. Of course. Maybe if we got Yuji Naka, Takashi Iizuka, and Yu Suzuki drunk in the same room they'd give us the timeline we've been lookin for.

 

Fascinating stuff! This awful thread was finally useful for something.

 

Iizuka said in the past that the Sonic games are stand alone stories. They just throw in little references for the fans as a bonus, but they don't want the fans to think about them too much. So when a fan goes from "Oh, I remember that" to "Darn, this doesn't make sense," then it's probably time to step away.

In Runner's special episodes, Sonic doesn't know any of the story book characters, which suggests that they are out of continuity. However, Omochao remembers and even talks about Sonic's involvement. That's a good example of the 'separate but connected' that Sonic Team is going for.

 

The problem with this statement is that this is not supported by the stories of the games themselves. It's the same with quips like the "two worlds" bit, "only male hedgehog can go super", and the explanation for what happens to the moon after Adventure 2.

Death Egg Saga: Sonic 2 > Sonic 3 & Knuckles
Shadow's backstory / amnesia arc: Adventure 2 > Heroes (amnesia) > Shadow the Hedgehog (amnesia/backstory) > Sonic 2006 (GUN relationship)
Phantom Ruby / Classic/Mania dimension Sonic: [Generations >] Mania > Forces (since it's also said the classic Sonic from the past in Generations is also the same Sonic from the classic/Mania dimension)

And those are the big ones I could think of. There's also smaller stuff like Adventure expanding on the Master Emerald/Angel Island's history introduced with Sonic 3&K with Chaos, Sonic 4: Episode II ending on a yet-to-be-resolved cliffhanger, whatnot with the Little Planet trapped in a Death Egg), and Generations literally time-traveling through the past (and again, having classic Sonic exist as Sonic's past before Forces jumped in with the Mania/parallel dimension nonsense). I'm not really a canon / plot aficionado in regards to Sonic games, but those are just the ones I can think of off the top of my head. I'm sure I've missed others and I'm not even going to bother with the handheld games (although most of those are standalone and aren't considered part of the mainline canon anyway). There are games that can be said to be largely self-contained events (Storybook games, Unleashed) but they're clearly not the standard.

Besides, Iizuka says a lot of things that in all bluntness should not be taken seriously. I would consider this just another statement to add onto the pile.

 

Thirded. I'm not sure why it's being made out to be more convoluted than it needs to be. Generations created a new splinter timeline somewhere back in the past. That new splinter timeline is now a stable alternate dimension, so characters can travel back and forth between them.

 

Needs to be simple enough for newbies to pick it up, but deep enough to keep the hard core timeline peeps happy.