Sonic Forces Thread

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Blue Blood, Jul 23, 2016.

  1. Laura

    Laura

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    I really do think OC the Wolf was going to be Boom Sonic at some prehistoric stage of development. The grappling hook is such an out of left-field item and it functions in exactly the same way as the enderbeam in Boom, including the whole 'cinematic swinging around architecture' that Boom did. I just think it makes more sense to have 3 Sonic's than 2 Sonic's and 1 OC the Wolf. I think the whole focus on combat and the seeming lack of Boost (but still fast gameplay) points at Boom Sonic too.

    Could be completely wrong though. I think OC the Wolf is probably going to be the real star of the game and the story's going to mostly focus on his adoration of Sonic (a cheesy meta-reflection to how we adored Sonic in our youth) until he's an equal in Sonic's fight against Eggman.

    I bet something cringe-worthy will probably happen at the end where both Sonic's are knocked out and then OC the Wolf comes to the rescue to save his heroes :v: . It'll be a moment where Sonic says something facepalm-inducing like "wow man, you saved me, I couldn't have done it without you". Could be even more cringe-worthy if OC the Wolf turns super to save them.

    What I'm trying to say is that, if my guesses that OC the Wolf is the big focus of the game, I think it would be a bit odd if they put that much focus on Boom Sonic in the initial design. It seems like a big shift in the story and overall focus of the game to change at the last minute.
     
  2. DigitalDuck

    DigitalDuck

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    Oh no.

    This is going to happen, isn't it? Remind me to buy popcorn when it does. :v:
     
  3. I wouldn't mind if they did it in a way like you expect them to over-gloritise the OC character, and just shit on him every opportunity there is. (No, not literally)

    Something like, he gets some sort of equipment to give him Sonic-esque speed prior to the first level. While other characters discuss plot, show him in the background trying to figure it out and constantly face-planting into walls. Kind of like, imagine how the plot would go if the OC character was played by Wile E. Coyote fully-stocked with ACME-brand equipment. The literal only time they ever succeed at anything is in the levels when the player has control. Otherwise, it goes exactly as you'd expect.
     
  4. plushifoxed

    plushifoxed

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    It might be pretty funny if you could choose a personality. Like, you could have something like what you mentioned, wher the OC gets handed the idiot ball and never manages to let go, or you could have an over-the-top depiction of a super edgy sort of character ...who doesn't get taken seriously because *nobody acts like that*; like, even Shadow thinks it's a bit much. And then you could have one where you're basically just Classic Sonic; silent but expressive, and your actions speak for themselves. Dunno how feasible such a concept would be, but it could be pretty goofy.
     
  5. Nova

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    Like, am I mistaken or didn't people like the writing of Colours when it first came out?

    I distinctly remember it being praised as a good direction for the series? I don't know, maybe I'm remembering wrong. Regardless, I'm not too fussed. I liked Colours cartooniness.
     
  6. Felik

    Felik

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    Yeah because cartoons are known for being mostly characters standing still and talking at each other.
     
  7. Crappy Blue

    Crappy Blue

    Knuckles' Chaotix is a perfect game with no flaws Member
    I don't think it's unreasonable to believe that people thought Colors' writing was fresh and entertaining coming off of Unleashed and Sonic 06, but then it was reevaluated after Generations and Lost World and people realized it was kinda trite. Like there are some lines in there that are still alright (not counting Eggman's voice clips that play over the PA system, which are all gold), but most of the cutscenes are pretty unbearable to watch. It's a good thing almost none of them have any bearing on the overall plot.
     
  8. TimmiT

    TimmiT

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    Colours is definitely the best out of the Warren Graff and Ken Pontac written Sonic stories, but mostly because of Eggman's PA announcements during the stages. During the actual cutscenes I think a lot of the jokes fall flat and go on for too long.

    Then Generations barely has a story at all so there's not much to say about that one, but Lost World's is pretty terrible. All of the new characters amount to nothing more than stereotypes, Sonic's an asshole now, and its the jokes aren't much better than in Colours. It's at its funniest when it tries to be serious. And even then its serious moments are less campy fun than in the Adventure-type stories Sonic used to have and feel more like sad failed attempts.
     
  9. Dark Sonic

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    ^ So is camp bad better? Like it was trying to do something but it failed to do it, I think that's worse. Although I did enjoy some moments in SA1, particularly when Eggman throws a tantrum when Amy beats his score in Hedgehog Hammer. "WHAT?!? I CAN'T BELIEVE THIS IS HAPPENING!"

    Idk, lines like "No Copyright law in the universe is going to stop me" are pretty great.

    And I did enjoy the moment in Lost World where Sonic makes that awful snow pun ("That was cool... get it?") and Eggman and Tails just look at him like... are you fucking kidding me? And idk, Sonic was still Colors like in Lost World to me, but they made Tails an asshole for sure.
     
  10. Dissident

    Dissident

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    I thought Gamma and Amy's storylines were pretty well done. Gamma's ending in particular is one of the better story beats the series has ever gotten imo. Held back by the presentation of the time but still enjoyable.
     
  11. Plorpus

    Plorpus

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    Pontac and Graf aren't talented writers when they don't write "down" to their audience. Unfortunately, they seem to write Sonic stories for, say... the AoTS audience rather than the SatAM audience. And even then, they explain the joke and use their own interpretation of the characters without any regard for what characterization they might have had for the previous 20 years of the franchise. They also tend to overexplain their jokes, but I'm not sure how much of that is them and how much is Sega (some of their jokes really don't translate to Japanese well).

    I gotta say though, I love their take on Eggman.
     
  12. big smile

    big smile

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    With the Sonic Team stories (Adventure to Unleashed), they seemed to want to keep the player in a state of “what will happen next?” So they kept on setting up lots of plot objectives (First Eggman's broken into GUN, now he's going to blow up Green Forest, Now we got to find the president, Now we've got to break into a pyramid base….).

    This helped to add a sense of urgency, but it also caused them to be horribly convoluted. It didn't help that they had trouble keep everything straight, so there would be lots of plot holes and contradictions. In many ways, it was a real effort to understand the overall story line.

    The Graff/Pontac stories have the opposite problem. They are very simplified and mostly focus on one plot (possibly two in the case of LW).

    I guess it comes down to personal taste, but I always found Graff/Pontac's stories to be deadly boring. Nothing really happens and the characters just spend time cracking jokes. Worst of all, unlike the Sonic Team stories there's no build up to the end, so the conclusion feels like it came out of nowhere. (Although I totally appreciate how people can find their simplified stories to be a refreshing change).

    As badly written as the Sonic Team stories were at least there was a sense of narrative urgency and build up which created engagement (although, I can see how the convoluted nature killed the engagement for a lot of people). Plus the Sonic Team stories tend to focus on the conflicts of other characters, so there's a sense of “world building” (although admittedly it feels very unplanned and accidental). As badly written as Runners was it was nice to learn about the animal friends and their lives/families. Graff/Pontac's work on the other hand tends to be so dominated by the jokes/humor that it feels very generic.

    To be honest, I find Graff/Pontac return to be even more off-putting than the return of GHZ and its bland level design or the OC creator.
     
  13. Atendega

    Atendega

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    I don't see how anyone could find Unleashed "convoluted". Adventure, sure. But I think Unleashed had a very good narrative balance.
     
  14. Dissident

    Dissident

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    Adventure 2 and 06 were the biggest culprits. Adventure was pretty straightforward and the only thing about it that made it "complicated" per se was the emphasis on each character having a different perspective and progression through the plot. Unleashed would have been a lot better received in general story wise if Chip had been likable and the Werehog concept wasn't as blatantly silly as it was imo.
     
  15. LowSeasCaroz

    LowSeasCaroz

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    And Pontac & Graff haven't really shown any improvement lately. Sonic Boom: Shattered Crystal was just as horrifically written as Rise of Lyric, with plotlines (Mind Control anyone?) going nowhere and the finale having the same tacked on "friendship helps you and you should totally always rely on your friends and have we mentioned FRIENDS yet?!?!" message as SA1, SA2, Heroes, Shadow, 06 and RoL at the end. It's made even worse by the game's low-budget presentation, the cutscenes aren't voiced and go on for waaay to long.
    Fire & Ice... good lord, did they even try? The highlights being a sad and super on-the-nose reference to Sonic & Knuckles (Which doesn't really make much sense, unless Angel Island is suddenly part of the Boom universe, which... it's not.) and a rushed and anticlimactic finale speaks volumes. At least the cutscenes were marginally better, but that's because Sanzaru games put more effort into what they were doing for the second game, something I can't say about the writers.
     
  16. Atendega

    Atendega

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    You making fun of Chip, buddy

    You wanna fucking go :argh:
     
  17. Fenrir

    Fenrir

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    I was absolutely fine with the lighthearted change of pace Pontac & Graff brought with them when Colors rolled around. I didn't think it was GOOD, but I was frankly just glad it wasn't an edgy the hedgy story.

    But then when Lost World came around, I feel like they both tried to have their cake and eat it too. When the writing wasn't being some of the absolute most groan inducing jokes that even a 10 year old wouldn't laugh at, it was trying to be serious (Lava Mountain) and go into great detail about how it would be hard for Sonic to choke without any teeth, or how Eggman would get fat from eating their black hearts amongst other things.

    I still feel Unleashed is the absolute perfect spot for a Sonic story to be at. Yes, Chip was annoying at times and the story was far from perfect, but it kept things bearable by not leaning too far in one direction or the other with it's tone.

    Just hire Ian Sega, PLEASE.

    Actually, as of a recent episode it was mentioned that Knuckles IS in fact from Angel Island and is the last of his kind in the Boom Canon.

    ...How that even works in the Boom universe is a mystery to me, but I digress.
     
  18. TimmiT

    TimmiT

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    While we're dunking on Ken and Warren's writing, let's not forget they also gave us this.
     
  19. big smile

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    Well, I guess to be fair, the issue might not be Graff/Pontac's writing. It could be down to the way Sonic Team is handling them.

    The old Sonic Team writers were part of the development team and a lot of them had other dev roles in addition to just writing, so (I assuming) they probably had more influence.
    I don't have any evidence, but I would be surprised if Graff/Pontac are as integrated in the process.
     
  20. ICEknight

    ICEknight

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    I'd say that's a (very) good thing... But then again, this is Sonic "Make Your Own Freedom Fighter" Forces, so the cartoon-based writing style may not work so well in here.


    Anyway, at this point I just want to see the final product so that I can analyze what went wrong with it. Just like happened with Sonic 2006.