Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

I don't know if we found this before or just for the White Park track, but Fadel confirmed the boss music was different in his game. So whatever the hell's going on with those tracks, they're not final.

 

Frontiers' show demo had the final music in it so no surprise.

IGN's footage seems to be more B-roll footage, likely from an earlier build.

 

Arzest is more known for their consistency than their quality I'd say. It's not who I would've gone with for a new 2D platformer.

That said, I gotta admit I didn't even think it was Arzest until it got confirmed. It looks better than the vast majority of their games, so that's promising.

 

Okay, now I'm intrigued: where the hell is this track even from? lol

 

Yes, precisely. Arzest have been consistently mediocre in the past. If they were anything to write home about, for better or for worse, you can guarantee that they'd have been discussed more within Sonic circles before now.

They're not who I'd have picked in a million years, but I'm pleasantly surprised.

 

They started with the foundation of the movement and physics and have established something perceptibly as close to one-to-one as can be hoped for when compared to the Genesis-era originals- though I don't feel they need to be that close if changes have results that feel more enjoyable or suit aspects of the design they're pursuing better. The most important part is solidly proven to be on the table.

The only things to be wary of are the level design, the execution of co-op, and perhaps the amount of content. I can only presume it's the level design that people are unsatisfied with when it comes to Arzest games if the base gameplay is fine, so I can understand a degree of worry. Still, we've got a strong start, the game's been in development for a long while, and the release date is rather close, meaning we'll likely see more fairly soon. It's fair to be optimistic for this one.

 

Oh god, I hope the music is just temp stuff because it really doesn’t sound very Sonic catchy…a huge turn off…Rip
The game itself looks looks like it has potential with them there classic physics. But let’s say they do nail the gameplay and level design, the music could really make or break the whole experience.

 

The game looks really beautiful. It looks almost identical to Sonic 1 and 2 Japanese box art in real life. It's really good. The movement also feels like Sonic but I won't know that until I get my hands on it and start playing it. The big if is the level design. Without Yasuhara or someone else who knows Sonic level design we might end up with a Sonic Advance situation where the engine feels like Sonic but the levels might not. We shall wait and see.

 

For what it's worth with Arzest, it's not unheard of for developers to have a string of bad/unremarkable games before they get a hit. Most of Naughty Dog's games were terrible before Crash Bandicoot. Rocksteady had Urban Chaos before Batman: Arkham. Phil Fish only had credits for two awful movie tie-ins before he made Fez.

So Arzest taking on Superstars isn't really a huge red flag in my book. Everything we've seen so far looks great, and Ohshima is one of Sonic's fathers so I'm sure he knows how to get it right. I'm not too concerned at the moment.

 

I'm hearing the inner dialogue of the level designers as I watch the footage. "Speed section: loop! booster! grind! tunnel! Go Sonic GO! WAIT stop, time for some platforming: boop! boop! Speed-platforming-speed-platforming. Are we nailing the classic Sonic experience or what?" Well... not exactly no.

 

I'm glad Lee is on this game so 100% of the music is guaranteed to not be trash, but if 50% of the game music is still trash ... I don't think this game will have a chance with being better than Mania for me or any of the classics. Jun needs to be off this project, both those boss musics -- if any of them were real -- were complete garbage when it comes to Sonic music standards. Sorry not sorry.

And what contributions did Jun even make to the classic games? I'm not sold on him being in it just because he was apart of Sonic Team back in the days.

 

I still stand by my former comments, the music ain't place holder, we'll get both themes in someway or another (Mini-boss theme perhaps?), and Jun Senoue will ruin yet another soundtrack.

The whole Tee Lopes being involved in the soundtrack, whilst a positive, I'll be taking as "probably did the cut scenes / animation soundtracks". I can't wait to be served my full buffet of awful drum loops and dying cats. /s

 

The boosters and tunnels are taken directly from CD. Ohshima straight up developing the game makes that even more clear.

Basically all of the bonus stages and jingles in S3&K and half of 3D Blast's Genesis soundtrack.

 

Kinda wish they went with the Sonic CD ,Chaotix or s3k styled music route for this game. To me, it sounds like the music would best fit something like a mega man or something, not so much sonic.

 

I think one of the things the fandom needs to make peace with is the idea that only the classic era games can be good Sonic games. Frankly, history has shown over time that this just isn't true.

SA1/SA2/Heroes have tons of fans. The Advance Games have tons of fans. Colors and Generations have a ton of fans. Each are reasonably critically acclaimed by large portions of the fandom, and the praises have merit. Each are commercially successful. Heck, I'm personally a big simp for Chaotix, the GG/Master System platformers, and Saturn 3D Blast.

In my critcal opinion, each of the above has major flaws that puts them below the classic trio, CD, and Mania. And I make no secret about how much I want Mania 2, though it now appears that's a long gone prospect again.

Putting aside the fact that this is Sonic retro and the retro engine titles are clearly this community's focus/preference, the simple reality is that Sonic does not have to have one exact method of play to be a good, successful game that pleases a large population of gamers. Situations like Shadow, Boom, and 06 are infamous, with other flawed outings like Forces also having problems... but we're not in that era anymore. Frontiers did very well, again, even with flaws. Sonic 4 was a big insult and handled poorly in terms of what it was marketed as, but even that title immensely improved between Episodes I and II. I genuinely love the final stretch of the game from Sky Fortress Act 2 onward.

Maybe there will simply never again be the perfect 2D Sonic game. Even I didn't like the recycled stages in Mania, despite them being at least very well made. Sonic's audience is now so much wider than just what my rather narrow definition of the perfect Sonic game is... and even that view breaks down when you start hyper-focusing on the retro engine titles only and argue about what is or isn't good about them (Sonic 1 is arguably a much worse game than Sonic 3 & Knuckles).

Overall, this game looks solid. I strongly doubt we're going to end up with Sonic 4 level compositions despite some of the fears. The engine and visuals look honestly very good, whether or not they are perfect replicas of the classics, and the stage design looks at least passable at bare minimum, but also at least shows signs of replayability. Heck, the thing I dislike most about this title so far is the spinoff-y nature of the name itself.

If this is essentially Sonic 5 (with all the good and bad that such a name would imply), I'm willing to give it a shot.

 

I don't think there's that pervasive an idea that "Not 1/2/3k = bad" within the Sonic fandom (to be quite honest I think it's more prevalent outside the fandom due to a lack of proper knowledge, exposure and access to other good Sonic games), rather it's just that people tend to have a very specific set of criteria that they need for a game to hit the same highs as those games, that only exists due to a truly unreal amount of love for those games, which is why they can judge new entries so harshly, even if they get a lot of things right. I have a feeling that a lot of people getting granular about the physics of this game would even do the same to Mania, or the little differences in S3K's Origins version (I mean, the ones that aren't bugs).

It's been proven for years (arguably decades) that a Sonic game doesn't need a lot of the classic games' elements to be good for most people. But sometimes it does need those things for certain people. And where are those people going to show up? Right here, of course. Where else would they go?

But also, y'know, opinions. The fandom skews young, everyone is nicer to even the games I think are crap than they were when I first joined, so I don't think it's worth getting that annoyed even if someone is full-tilt on the anger over green eyes or whatever. Even if they're being stupid, they're not a threat to us! It's fine!

 

A writer for Sonic Stadium has published their hands-on experience with Superstars. It’s overall very positive. He also says the physics are very close to the genesis classics
https://www.sonicstadium.org/2023/06/sonic-superstars-hands-on-impressions/

 

I still agree with you, I'm just trying to speak to the oldest and most jaded among us. They don't have to like the game, but the more I watch the gameplay, the more I realize that this is what Sonic 4 should have been all along, and we're just having collective trauma over it. This is a much, much better game in every respect so far than what we had them try back then. I guess if music (and to a lesser extent length) is our worst anxiety now with what we've seen, we'll do pretty okay with this one when it drops.

Plus, the general gamer population seems very positive. The video hit 1 million plus in 2 days, this thread is already at near 50 pages... and the general internet comments are quite positive. Sonic is back, is mainstream, and is well respected again. Flawed or not, overall, the franchise is clearly in a new golden age if Forces was the worst thing we've gotten since Boom (and hell, I think the Boom cartoon also had merits even if the game sucked).

I say this partially to make peace with the lack of a retro mania sequel. It's still not something I'm particularly happy to see get passed over, but I'm also a fan of many parts of Sonic's history, and I can see myself having a lot of fun with this title, and Sonic Team having a GOOD internal engine to use for even more games based on this formula is hardly a bad thing. Could we end up with a SuperStars trilogy one day? Sure. Why not?

 

Impressions from Sonic Stadium:

https://www.sonicstadium.org/2023/06/sonic-superstars-hands-on-impressions/

Mostly positive apart from a little bit of automation in that Jungle stage and the soundtrack is "meh" not Sonic 4 bad but not as good as the classics.

Edit: ninja'd.

 

A franchise spanning over 30 years obviously would hardly stay the same throughout the ages.
There's been bad apples (all long-running franchises have such) and poorly-executed attempts.
The fandom spans from the 90s to now, so opinions and tastes vary, and that's only age-related.
I still want to believe the franchise can take from its primary golden age and get back on stage.
Maybe it's no longer far the day the classic and adventure formula can be replicated somehow...
Yet, I wonder if skepticism ain't a good thing, especially nowadays (given Origins and Frontiers).
If SEGA's finally paying heed to the fandom on the right spots, it might be good on the long run.
I admit, I don't know what's the best formula for the franchise, there's been already too much...

But I gotta ask you folks here... Is there really such a need for a Mania2?
Maybe Superstars in finally tapping onto something on the right path.
It could be the first step to get a good formula for either 2D, 2.5D or 3D...