Everyone should just accept that we're finally getting a official 2D game made Taxman and Stealth, something that SEGA finally licensed on! Even if it does look like out of a badass fan game, who cares! End of story.
@Pulse0 I'd be inclined to say that this looks allot more appealing than Fan Remix or Sonic 4, for a number of reasons. But I won't get into that because of the shitstorm we caused over at Sonic's character design & aesthetic thread :v:
I can only imagine that this "fan game" business that keeps popping up is just a manifestation of jealousy. I wonder how many realize that I've personally been banging my head against this for 25 years? :/ A lot of stuff has already been said, but what I can add to the discussion is that everything we do is evaluated by SEGA anyway, and if it doesn't fit their standards and requirements, we're asked to change it. Some of the stuff I've seen used to accuse Mania of being a "fan game" is actually stuff we were asked to do, and in general I perfectly-well understand the reasoning behind the request, too. We work with them directly just like any other studio that anyone might decide to have more respect for I can't even begin to understand the mindset, anyway. It's bad that "SEGA picked us" (a phrase that pretty much totally misrepresents the situation) because we're fans? So by extension, it's bad that anyone who, besides having legitimate talent, actually understands and cares about a franchise is working on it? Yeah, avoiding that has worked out well in the past :P On the other end, though, the response has otherwise been pretty amazing! I'm blown away by even this thread alone, thank you all for your support!
btw Mania's green hill isn't an old tile set by the way that's an all new tiles set it has highlights and shadows and detail not present in the original I can honestly say I'm not jealous, and maybe if I am I feel that way about all developers from 0 to AAA cause I want to be able to deliver my own games too. I will admit I'm looking forward to mania but I'm not on the hype train as "everyone else" if I come off as petty I apologize. Ialso feel my consernes are different from the norm and a tad misrepresented too, but somthings I just don't know how to phrase better
Where are the fan games that have 6+ zones with level design that rivals any of the classics, and at the same time matches or surpasses the classic physics? I don't know of any fan game that has all 3 of these requirements at the same time. There are just a couple of games that either have 6+ zones with bad physics OR have 1 zone with good physics. As for level design... are there any games with good one? Sonic Fan Remix and Sonic 2 HD do not count since the layout is not new.
Thank you, and all the other people involved, for working so hard to make something that is making me literally salivate. :specialed:
It irritates me when people write this game off as a "fangame", but I get the impression that it wasn't Pulse's impression to "write off" Sonic Mania in that way. I think he's more confused by the perspective of people so excited to see a "retro" looking title when the community here does such an incredible job of making high quality looking projects already. To me at least, Sonic Mania's style would not be as exciting if it wasn't in the artstyle it was, or if it wasn't developed by the fine folks it currently is by, and I think that's an excitement very particular to Sonic alone. If a "Mario Mania" was announced today with graphics like a SNES title but new and old levels alike, I wouldn't be as excited. I grew up with both Mario and Sonic, but my excitement would be quelled a bit because Mario's always had a fair shot. Every mainline Nintendo console has had a high quality Mario game on it. But Sonic has had a notable gap between the days of Sonic 1-3K and Sonic Adventure. We got bits and pieces of a 2D-3D hurrah, but a mainline Sonic game skipped the Saturn generation. 3D Blast, Sonic Jam, Knuckles Chaotix, all the post-Genesis Sonic games skirted around ideas and concepts or presented spinoffs that were hit and miss. They either teased us with high quality 2D elements (like in Chaotix) or almost 3D Sonic ideas (Sonic X-Treme, the 3D world of Sonic Jam's "Sonic World"). I imagine many here, at least, I know I think, that there's a bit of a "what if" as to what could've been in that gap between 3K and Adventure for Sonic. What would a Sonic game have been like on the Saturn? What kind of mixture of retro graphics and high quality CD audio, how would it try and push 2D graphics with high quality animations, pseudo-3D effects, and big levels? Yes, it's possible for a fangame to approach that quality, heck, AXSX does a great job looking like the Sonic X-Treme that never was. But fangames run into a notable issue, time and money. There's been many fangames, high quality fangames, around SonicRetro, but while some play with different ideas, very few feel like that "Sonic Saturn" title that could've bridged the gap between 3K and Adventure. Those that have like Megamix and Sonic XG have been in limbo for nigh eternity, and for good reason. Either you have something that's good, but maybe not great, that you can see sometime within the next five years, or you have something with a professional touch about it that will take an eternity because it'll take a certain kind of polish and care that can't be done in a reasonable amount of time without a paycheck, lest someone wants to go hungry and homeless for Sonic. Sonic Mania, unlike many fangames around here, has a bloody release date on queue. It has two of some of the finest of this community at its helm, and they're recognized by SEGA. It's a distant dream for me that Nintendo would even consider putting down their pride to pick up AM2R or Mother 4, but SEGA did what very few Japanese gaming companies dare to do, and that's embrace their fan community in this kind of way, and not just to make a new Sonic game, but fill in that "what if" gap of a SEGA Saturn looking Sonic. Sonic 2 HD looked great, but has shuffled around in development hell for ages. Sonic XG has jumped developers more times than I can count over a span of what, 10 years? Sonic Megamix, while great fun, has ended for obvious reasons again, over a very long span of time. Sonic Mania is exciting on many, many levels. SEGA recognition, some of the best leading it, people getting paychecks for their quality work? It's every piece together that makes it really damn cool, and Stealth, you, Taxman, and all the crew at PagodaWest Games and Headcannon deserve the thanks and elation you've been getting.
To answer, this is off topic though_ It CAN be done, just cause it can doesn't mean it is or will done. Imo most people shoot for the status quo and try to return to the old school days rather than surpass those days. I myself have been guity of that and as an artist I kick myself for it. Also level design is subjective. Sonic 4 ep 1 is the best example of that.
Thanks for bringing us this amazing title! It's still surreal to see all this fantastic talent from the fan community working with Sega officially on this.
So I was under the impression that "fan game" implies nothing other than "not officially licensed, and not a rom hack"
I think having the comparison to a fan game isn't necessarily a bad thing. Some fan games are actually rather fun and are love letters from fans (Sonic Before/After the Sequel, Sonic Axiom, and Sonic Classic come to mind). In many ways that's what Sonic Mania is, only with the added bonus of a budget, a publisher, and a development team. It's like a fan game that takes it many steps further. It'll be a fan game with support, development time, and direction. It'll be something that will be tested to ensure as few problems as possible, and if stuff is found later it'll probably be patched. I'm thrilled that this is being worked on by fans, fans that have proven themselves skilled enough to actually create an official game. It shows that not only they love the series but they're damn good at what they do. Hell I would have paid for Sonic After the Sequel if I needed to, and if I would pay for that I'll definitely pay for this.
Trying not to laugh out any vital organs at the 'fangame' quip. For years people have been saying "the fans are doing it better than SEGA" and well now they're basically one and the same in this instance, fangames are all of a sudden not good enough? Get the fuck out. Let us previously-sour fucks enjoy this.
I don't think it can be stressed enough how much of a difference having a budget backing a project like this is. Just to isolate one area this changes, simply having a proper play-testing and QA process is a really really big deal and is one of the biggest factors separating a professionally released video game from the many many fan projects you see attempted.
game made by fans ? fangame The entertainment industry can add people into the fold from its communities. When you add people vertically, rather than laterally, you have people who are more likely to have passion for a project. Not saying that Sonic Team doesn't want to make Sonic games anymore (though they haven't had an original IP in over a decade so they may be getting burnt out), but are you going to tell me this team have not proven themselves to not only have the ability, but the desire to do this proper?
If we define a fan as someone who is passionate about the intellectual property/product, then its clear that many fans have worked on official titles. In that light this project is no different as it has passionate team members. And this is a good thing.
Of course it's going to feel like "fan game". Fans are the only ones who've been making earnest attempts at an authentic followup to Sonic 3 & Knuckles for the past 20 years. That's bad on Sega of the last 20 years, not bad on the developers behind Mania. The fact that Sega finally recognizes these efforts and is willing to fund an earnest attempt at an authentic followup is only a good thing. It speak highly of Sega's character, and it's the culmination of a lot of hard work by a lot of people in this community.
So I have a quick question about the cave part of Green Hill. Is that part based on the Green Hill from Generations or was the 1991 version supposed to have a cave section as well?
There is nothing wrong with Sega backing an "official fangame", and I actually think more publishers should do it, and more often. It can help to increase their output or it can help older series they have no interest in. I mean, Microsoft of all publishers did it with Age of Empires II and Age of Mythologies, or what about the upcoming Fear Effect Sedna. Besides, Taxman and Stealth fought their way to this title, they earned the right to make Mania, and deserved it, for this reason I have no doubt they will put everything they can into Sonic Mania (and the many easter eggs crammed in just 1 zone prove it). And it seems I still didn't comment on the reveal, and I guess there is little I can add that wasn't already said, so I'll say just this little thing: it's been 4 days, and even now my day is not complete until I hear the Studiopolis music and see the reveal trailer at least once. They are perfect. It could be based on the underground parts from the MS/GG Green Hill, with added details.
