Sonic 4: Episode 1 Discussion

Hey.

Hey Polygon Jim.

Release a Sonic 4 Wii hack where the only change is the oh-wow-I-wasn't-aware-Retro-didn't-like-that soundclip to replace the bumpers in the special stages.

And Sonic 4 will be 10 times more fun.

 

You should do mine. It's pretty bad, even if on purpose. In fact, I think I may have overachieved in making it horrible.

 

You know what, after the amazing announcement of Sonic Generations, I'm wondering if Sonic 4 is going to end up with one episode only.

 

I would honestly prefer it be killed off. Unless Dimps is willing to convert at least Sonic Advanced physics and actual level geometry, not pre-rendered photoshops.

But I don't think they'll abandon it so long as people buy it. I don't think Generations will do enough damage to warrant a cancellation.

 

It's not like this can't be improved upon much like how Sonic Colors improved on (and took away from) Unleashed. It does beg the question of "which Sonic" you'll be playing as: Mr. Spindash or Mr. Homing Attack? That is, what sort of level design would build upon which moveset?

Either way, Episode II should stand apart from Episode I and outdo whatever Sonic Generations accomplishes.

 

Not going to happen. S4 is a downloadable title made on a small budget that's outsourced to an external company. Even if E2 vastly improves on E1 (I hope to fuck it does) it's never going to reach the production values of Generations.


EDIT: Double post within a post, fucking iphone.

 

How many times do I have to post this?



Of course, this is implying that Dimps gave two shits about what made the original games great. The Grin team spent weeks playing the original game, disassembled it to find out exactly how everything works and then built the game up from there. It also helped that they were fans of the original.

All I'm saying is don't pin the quality of the game because it's downloadable title. I doubt we'll ever see that level of commitment and passion from Dimps, but it's not its distribution that's the problem.

 

I agree totally that just because it's a downloadable title, doesn't mean it has to be a half assed, rushed mess.

To expect Generations Lite of S4E2 is being over optimistic. The develpment team are not given the time or the money.
All we can hope for is better level design and improved music, two things that require skill not extra money.

 

Reposting this from that news site.

http://youtu.be/QG_z8HSLC5M (Sorry, YouTube button isn't working for me).

Gameplay is, of course, unreleated to Sonic 4. However, the words are of interest, and of topic: "[....] We were trying to create a new, 2D experience with that…For Sonic 4: Episode I; we weren't necessarily trying to recreate the exact feel of the Genesis. That's why there's a homing attack. So it wasn't really Genesis style, momentum based gameplay. So, uh… (pause) But this time, you know, our goal from the beginning is very different."


There you have it.

 

Fixed it for ya'.



1:30, Sonic can totally be seen revving up a spindash multiple times. So people can stop bitching about that. Though to be honest, this video would probably be a better fit for the Generations megathread.

 

Absolutely. I just brought it here because of the Sonic 4 news.

 

I don't think that was entirely the point—the medium, budget, et cetera does pretty much ensure it's not reaching the same level of production value and such as Generations. That being said, "production value" isn't a gameplay issue. The key issues there—level count, level originality, physics, level design—those can be accomplished without even changing up the graphical style or overall production values of Episode I, and I don't think anyone here would really be over-miffed if they were. As for the music, there are games with Episode I's budget and price range with infinitely better music, so that's not even an issue. It's entirely on the developer's head, that one.

What they do with Episode II, well, that could go both ways at this point. We'll see where it goes when we get some information. "Generations Lite" isn't going to happen, but honestly I don't think it should. Not in the whole sense of what that term implies, anyway.

Side note: that quote is gold. "So it wasn't really Genesis-style, momentum-based gameplay." Yes, no shit. You pretty much sold it on that, but at least you're being honest about it now. -.-'

Well, you're fundamentally right, but I don't think everyone means "death" when they talk about challenge. It's not that easy to die, but at the same time, it's incredibly easy to screw up. So while being easy to beat, Sonic games aren't the easiest to get good at. Even harder to get really good at.

But, yes, at the most basic sense, Sonic games are generally very easy. Unless you're incredibly bad at them, you shouldn't have any trouble beating the game. Very fun and very satisfying to improve at, though. So it's a nice balance between ease of play and the challenge of mastery, which is pretty much the sort of thing that kept most games alive past their first few hours back in the day, unless they were RPGs or something.

 

Sonic games aren't hard per se. I could breeze through them if I wanted to. They're just bloody frustrating with the Chaos Emeralds. At least Sonic 1 & 2 are; Sonic CD and 3 did much to alleviate the frustration. Sonic 4 nailed the special stage frustration pretty well, factoring out the accidental shortcut of pausing and restarting the stage. Nevertheless, they were challenging, and the only thing I really mind about them is the music and, well, the silly motion gimmick afterthought.

KOBE!

 

"Hey guys, remember when we said that Sonic 4 Episode 1 would be like the classic games with momentum and all that shit? Yeah, we totally lied back then. BUY SONIC GENERATIONS OUT THIS HOLIDAY!"

 

I think one thing that is perfectly obvious is that Sonic 4 Episode 1 wasn't originally supposed to be Sonic 4 (fyi, the tentative title was always referred to as SonicDL - it was still considered this even as late as November 2009). In fact, the decision to call the game Sonic 4 was probably done very late in the development by Sega's marketing team. The game as we see it now was originally created with the mindset that it didn't have to try to be as good as the classics, it just had to be a mediocre and playable game (like all the other download only games, harhar). By the time some numb nut made the decision to call what they see "Sonic 4", most of the work on the game was already done. In my opinion, the game's delay had more to do with the fact that Sonic Team/Sega knew that if they were to sell the game when it used to be more like the PartnerNet build, it would conflict with everyone's (the player's as well as the developer's) concept of what a "Sonic 4" should be. They didn't take the time to completely re-haul it from the ground up, since that would cost more money, time, and effort than what the developer's initially bargained for.

The only thing they could do was to "polish the turd" so it was at least more "acceptable", but of course we know better. That "polishing of the turd" was also probably the reason why the game costs $15 as opposed to $10, which I believe was the original price before the delay. In the end, I think Sega would've saved themselves a lot of trouble if they hadn't made the mistake of calling it Sonic 4. Of course people will question "what's in a name?", but not everyone questions it. As someone said a while back, calling this Sonic 4 was just a marketing gimmick to get more people to buy it. You can't argue logic like this, because I'm sure that's exactly what Sega thought when they gave the okay to call the game this.

However, there is a silver lining to this travesty. Now that the developers have a clear understanding of what they're supposed to be creating this time, in theory Episode 2 should be nothing like Episode 1 and should instead be more like the classic games. The one nice thing about the concept of "Sonic 4" being episodic is that they have the opportunity to make a game everyone feels comfortable calling "Sonic 4". In other words, now the developers have the opportunity to create a game from start to finish with the thought that it's "Sonic 4" in mind, rather than just a "downloadable Sonic game". I do have hopes for something good for Episode 2 if it ever shows up. I just hope that not only do they learn from their mistakes, they also take the time to create something new and exciting.

I hope for only the best for them.

 

Agreed, pretty much. But where did you get the detail about Sonic 4 being codenamed "Sonic DL" until late in the game's development?

 

So there's no news on episode 2, and probably never will. Good.

Yeah, citation needed.

 

Hmmm... interesting, if that SonicDL thing is true evilhamwizard, then your explanation makes a lot of sense actually. It would perfectly explain why they haven't bothered replicating little details. Makes you somehow wonder though why they haven't made a Sonic Rush esque title instead of going all retro, but I think I know why. Anyway, other than that I can only repeat what previous posters said, where did you find this information?