Damn, I still remember my first time making it to the Death Egg Zone in Sonic 2, only to lose my last life to Silver Sonic. I wasn't prepared to have zero rings at the time, talk about a challenge. Also, I'm not sure if 'Sonic losing its challenge' is exclusive to Sonic alone. Games in general have been catering to Casual gamers, allowing for infinite lives in games like Halo and Gears of War, where players can die as much as they feel they need to until they beat the game. Platformers have also been suffering for this, Sonic Unleashed giving you game overs just lets you simply restart the level.
This discussion has made me ponder on classic Sonic levels that I found challenging in a fashion that isn't cheap (I.e. decorated with BS pitfalls). Wacky Workbench came to mind, but I can see how many may feel that level is also cheap from its design. Oh, and Wing Fortress Zone, though seeing how the entire level is over a pitfall, is it as cheap as some of the obstacles in Sonic 4? I believe I enjoy levels that are difficult in the fashion where its a puzzle to get through to the end, with maybe some obstacles to retain a sense of danger. It's not fun for me when I'm losing 20+ lives over something, generally.
Let's see... one torch reveals a horizontal platform, but it's too high to reach. Another torch reveals a vertical platform, which allows you to get higher. I WONDER WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO
Wing Fortress is not cheap for a level hovering over a bottomless pit, the only cheap spot I can think off is that booster that half the time doesn't work, and sends you directly into your death.
You have light two of the torches and time it properly to get it to work. I never really had trouble with this section myself, but I can see how it could be confusing the first time around. Wacky Workbench just feels messy because there's a ton of things going on at once (bouncy floor, electricity, rotating platforms, etc.) and if you're new it can be hard to react to them on time. I don't think it classifies as cheap but it can be really disorienting, and the busy neon aesthetics don't really help. Wing Fortress is the last level in the game, so I would hope has more demanding platforming than the other levels - most of which don't even have many pits at all, sans-Hill Top. On top of that, pits are only cheap when you can't see them coming. I think Wing Fortress makes it pretty clear that you don't want to fall down from the start. I can only think of two pits in Sonic 4 that are marginally cheap, and that's the one in Splash Hill Act 3 and that annoying grab-bag platforming section in Casino Street Act 2, if only because the platforms seem to move at complete random. Difficulty-wise it seems on-par with the Genesis games to me. That is, easy and relaxing except for the Special Stages.
The booster isn't cheap. If you don't hold right, the air speed cap doesn't kick in, so it functions normally. Instead, it's a flaw in the engine.
I don't think Lives = Difficulty. If anything that's forced difficulty, and that's WORSE. Level design can be intricate and challenging without lives forcing you to replay bits you already did. The life system from platformers should have died out alongside the arcades.
Thanks! Part of the problem is that half the time I don't have enough speed to make the first jump to the left. I feel like struggling with this could kill my d-pad. I'll try the 2 torch method.
Okay, finally got the game for the Wii. From what I've played I will admit I see some of the critisms issued. The controls feel rather clunky and the physics are a little broken here and there, or at least defy the laws of gravity a lot more than the original Sonic titles. However it's not quite enough to make the game unenjoyable for me, and I actually find some of the levels pretty impressive. At a glance it seemed like a rehash though I was surprised at some of the new innovations added to some levels, eg. the balance mechanics such as the rolling boulder or the gambling cards in the casino zones). They could have maybe made more innovative use of the homing attack than just constant Bubble enemies everywhere though. Also while they do have some unique touches I do hope for some more unique level designs in later episodes. Overall, yeah labelling it an official followup to the legendary trilogy was asking for trouble, but as a pocket money game it's not that bad and hopefully later episodes will add to it.
SMB removed it because it was necessary. You cannot compare it to a platforms that uses the life system because SMB is designed entirely around the idea if death. And yes, I read their blog explaining their idea of the life system.
Honestly I'm shocked that games still even use lives. They lost significance years ago, arguably Sonic hasn't had any need for lives since Sonic 3. And now they're just useless. Sonic Unleashed and Sonic Colors hand out lives to you in difficult spots anyway, making it almost impossible not to have 99 lives eventually. And in Sonic 4 I currently have 791 lives. There is no need for that, at all. This doesn't go for just Sonic. Mario, Donkey Kong, whatever still uses lives. I get the whole retro appeal but if you lose all your lives and you can just go back to the start of the level, the fuck is the point of that number at the bottom left corner of the screen?
Often platform games have challenges and collectibles in levels that are taken away from you when you get a game over. A life system can still work just as well as they used to.
Not sure if this has been posted yet, but Pokecapn did a let's play on this game: http://www.youtube.com/user/pokecapn#grid/...D0DD2B2EE536933 There are 12 parts so far, not sure if he finished it or not. EDIT: He is doing 2 playthroughs, one with normal Sonic and one with Super Sonic.
Nice, I loved the team's Sonic 06 and Unleashed playthroughs, here's hoping they do a Sonic Colors one.
This one isn't as good as the Sonic 06 and Unleashed LPs though. Pokecapn has already played through Sonic 4 Episode 1 before and it's pretty tame in comparison. They've done a Black Knight playthrough before though, which is better since he hasn't played through the game before doing the LP. you can view it on his Youtube channel as well. EDIT: Oh, and he said on Twitter that he would begin uploading the Sonic Colours playthrough this week. EDIT 2: Just saw the last part of his first playthrough, and I never knew you could jump to get the rings in the pre-credits sequence and get a secret slightly different ending. That's actually pretty neat. EDIT 3: Their second playthrough with Super Sonic is actually a lot more fun to watch, mostly because they actually try some more stuff out instead of just taking the safe route. Also, it has Medibot.
That was incredibly boring. You know those music videos where the video is a literal reenactment of the lyrics? This is that in LP form. Hope their Colors LP is better.
Seriously, the speed boosters have no place in that level at all...at least in Sonic 3 the boosters were only in a couple of levels where they were needed.
Was there any other level besides Hydrocity and Launch Base that had speed boosters in S3&K? The great thing about those were that they were radically different in accomplishing the same task. Those little things really made the game. I was always in intrigued by the giant hand....oh those crazy Echidnas.... but I've never understood those stick things in Launch Base....I still appreciated them for what they are though. Air puffs have been my absolute favorite and I would think those would have been a better culprit of abuse in Sonic 4. The Chemical Plant and conveyor belt type boosters have been overused the most throughout the entire series.
