Sonic Superstars: A New 2D Sonic Game (Fall 2023)

This is the best source that I know of. (There's a link to download in the Tweet.)

https://twitter.com/SVAProject/status/1667154588103737344

 

Well this is unfortunately true, because "positive" exploration and treasure hunting factor have never been exactly Sonic's forte. You'd explore because you had to, in a way.

Now we seem to be able to collect shiny fruits, so there's that, but certainly the factor that would drive most exploration in classic Sonic -- you just died and can't be arsed to go the same path again, or you need more rings to feel safe, or there's an 1-Up you saw with the corner of your eye that you think you'd really help you but you don't know how to get there -- doesn't seem to be present. Not only because lives don't seem to be a factor, but also the longer footage we have shows a guy who's thankfully not very good at the game but still manages to get like 120 rings without even looking for them. Which has been the norm since forever now, sure, but how we perceive the amount of content changes a lot here.

 

If it's less than 8 zones I'll be sad, more than 10, I'll be happy.

My emotional moods and reactions will fit somewhere in that range.

 

Definitely hoping you'll get at least that much and more!

True. It's not a format I have an issue with, but it's the reality of the design- and a boon to it for higher levels of play when you're in the traditional context of being a single player trying to figure out the fastest way to do things. The exploration in those titles is less for finding secrets and discovering things as opposed to being alternate forks toward the same end with differing levels of resistance. The intrinsic joy of finding something isn't a thing that the classic games pursue, so it seems reasonable to want the collectables to provide something of a reward that makes going out of your way as a typical player more attractive. In co-op, I imagine it'd have to be very evidently worthwhile to incentivize players coordinating to make that effort.

There are advantages to lives disappearing, as they've grown less and less functional as a mechanic over time. In this case however, unless there's added value to rings as a currency or a means of unlocking things like you would with the checkpoint bonus games, I'd say that they've missed an opportunity. As you've aptly indicated, there are multiple losses involved in the decision as well- including the redundancy of ring monitors and the elimination of the need for life monitors.

There do seem to be things in the levels we've seen so far that engage with the players in interesting ways like the vortex loops and the ring dispensers, so I wouldn't discount the possibility of some new contexts for collectables to be interesting and possibly worth pursuing. Things like 3D World's score placement at the end of stages can make rings more interesting, and I imagine we might see things like sound test tracks and concept art unlocked for collecting medals. The fruit looks to have something to do with the animal containers, I'm not sure what that's about. Big doubt that we'll get something as nice as unlocking more Acts or Zones through any of these things, though.

 

If the game stays true to its new zones ethos, and the final level isn't in 4king space - I'll be positively ecstatic!

 

One thing I've always wanted to see from a 2D Sonic game is "bonus" acts. Sort of like how Sonic Colors has more than 2 acts per stage, I think it would be cool if Superstars gave you extra acts as a reward. They wouldn't need to create assets for an entirely new zone, just add extra content and length with some unique new level layouts. Obviously it's a 3D game with a lot of perspective stuff going on, and it's not as simple as recycling tiles in a sprite-based game, so it's still obviously work. But I think if they don't want to mess with the format of 2 acts per zone, or they're afraid 3+ acts would make them go on too long, they could have bonus acts that unlock after you've hit a certain milestone. Sort of like how Yoshi's Island did it, or other Mario games I'm sure but none come to mind.

 

Yeah, there's something to the expanded structure from Colors or the way Lost World did 4 Acts where expansion is concerned. It seems pretty set and clear that they're going for the traditional 2 Act per Zone structure for this one with the possibility of occasional interjections in the progression. For Superstars, maybe minigame unlocks could be an interesting way to add to the content and both focus on and reward co-op play. Given they've been so up front with the coverage so soon after the reveal and how close we are to the release bracket, I imagine we'll likely get a better understanding of how rich bonus content and even perhaps the primary progression is fairly soon.

 

I didn't like the 3ds Mario and Sonic games whenever I played them, but that was also because they weren't "HD" versions of Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Games on DS, which was a game I played to death. I've never been able to play any other Arzest game either, but it does seem like that's the story of their whole library of games. People go in expecting one thing when it's just not what the game is.

No comment on the full game, but speaking for the Demo (which I downloaded before it was removed), despite long load times, running on lowest settings and scaling was actually pretty smooth and about as good as playing on PS4, all on a laptop that is way past its prime that wasn't even that good in its prime. But there's more factors than just DRM to consider, like I don't know whether or not they've swapped to Unreal Engine 5, which could also change performance.

Could be a possibility, although you might have to settle for remixed versions of one of the previous acts. Both Sonic Lost World 3ds and (I'm sure you're tired of this being brought up) Balan Wonderworld had something like this - in LW3DS, you get a bonus fourth act for all Red Star Rings in an area that uses assets from one of the previous ones to make another new stage, plus you have the typical Hard Mode versions of everything that unlocks just by beating the game, and includes those extra acts. Similar third acts are given to each stage in Balan, and they're basically all just more open-ended versions of the stages that expect you to utilize all the costumes you can. Encore Mode might also be a comparable example, but I don't know how different those stages were beyond changing monitors around.

 

Current thoughts:
+ Gameplay looks way better than I could've ever expected. Everything about how a classic Sonic game should play seems present and accounted for, except the badnik bounce mechanic (which could still be in, I just haven't seen it yet). My only complaint about the way the controls look is that the Spin Dash seems a tad sluggish. But other than that, awesome! Never in my life thought I could say that about a new Sonic made by anyone besides folks who are/were longtime fans.

+ Level design for the first zone looks great. I'm getting flashbacks to Sonic CD, in a really good way. Really dense and chaotic, but lots of room to build up speed, and a lot of quarterpipes to ramp into the air. It's somehow both shocking and not at all that Oshima's return to Sonic brought back the old philosophy of 1/CD with him. I dig. The second zone looks a little more clunky, IMO, but I can appreciate it's verticality. Again, I can feel from the sheer amount of tubes and connecting areas the Sonic CD vibes creeping back in.

+ The 2.5D is being used well. Very big fan of emphasizing set pieces and spectacle (that swirly S-loop is sick), and weaving in and out of the foreground and background. It's not AS involved as I'd like (Unleashed/Gens are the best Sonic has ever done it), but it could also just be that the first two zones haven't yet pulled all the stops. Also semi-related, I'm a very very big fan of seeing the dash panels be two-way. Been wondering why the series hadn't adopted that uuuuh 20 odd years ago.

+ Loving seeing stage gimmicks be prominent in Sonic again. They're not THE most creative in the world, but the abundance of them is extremely welcome, especially after a game like Frontiers which decided it didn't need to have anything in it, ha.

- The stages, while very stylish and fun looking, are a bit crusty. The excess rim-lighting is hard to look past; it's really distracting at times and just reminds me of how games looked a decade ago. On a similar note, character and enemy animations seem a bit unpolished outside of Sonic, Tails, Knux and Amy. I hope these things get cleaned up closer to release, but the part of me that knows they made Balan has me, erm, concerned that they won't.

- The bosses seem really poor. Not only do they animate slow and weightlessly, but they take too long to fight and the concepts themselves aren't very interesting. Once again, I'm getting flashbacks of Sonic CD.. but this time, in a bad way. If Oshima had anything to do with these or CD's bosses, it just highlights a throughline in how they're not his strong suit. lol

? Jun leading the project's music with desires to "sound like the Genesis games" is a MASSIVE red flag. Even if Tee Lopes is on it and every other good composer (Hataya please), I legitimately fear what this game is going to sound like haha. It would be a huge disappointment if it sounds anything close to S4.

-----

Overall impressed! But not TOO much. Looking forward to seeing what this game does with itself.

 

Surprised no one mentioned this yet (or I missed it in the 50 pages I had to go through, which is very possible). Sonic 1 proto reference!


But yeah, this seems like it's going to be a well-made game. So far I don't think it'll be the best classic-esque game ever made, but it looks very promising.

 

Sonic Rush Adventure did this with SIXTEEN bonus acts all referred to as "Hidden Island" that you could find by exploring the game map.

 

Sonic Mania for me set a precedent of 12 zones, and that's not counting the Encore mode. 8 zones is an absolute bare minimum for me, but even that's begrudgingly so. 10 is the more ideal minimum, while 12 to me would be a healthy size game.

Curious to see how the modding scene will develop over time. I have no doubt we'll see Sonic Generations and Forces (maybe Episode 2? Ick.) stages ported in, which will be fun to see with the different physics.

 

Where is that number coming from?

 

It isn't a definite thing, but more off his estimate based on a debug menu that was caught in stream. You can see it here:

We don't know that all stages are in that build, but it's something to go off of.

 

Thank you. I love this community. I greatly appreciate how I ask a question in this thread, then get a useful answer.

 

Maybe that's an unpopular opinion, but I think both 3&K and Mania run out of steam near the endgame and definitely could've done with a couple of zones less, imo.

I honestly don't mind 2D sonic being a shorter affair as long as it's not something ridiculous like Episode I's 4 zones lmao, somewhere along the lines of 8 to 10 zones would be more than enough to satisfy me :p

 

12 zones is a tad too much in my opinion. You start to run the risk of overusing level themes. Mania had 3 (I won't count Lava Reef) industrial zones by the end, and that start to get tiring.

 

Unless you're arguing there are less than 12 potential themes for a level, that argument doesn't make any sense.

 

This genuinely doesn't feel real. It feels like a cosmic anomaly.

I am so happy it exists and I can't wait to play it.

 

Maybe I should've phrased that better. I feel like 12 levels is a tad too much because you run the risk of overusing zone themes, unless you break it up. I dislike that Mania has 4 industrial zones by the end (I suppose now that I think about it, Lava Reef counts) because it becomes boring to see that theme over and over. I much prefer S3&K's approach of the industrial levels being broken up by other level themes.

I guess what I'm saying is, if you're going to have a lot of levels, break up level themes instead of jam packing them all into certain sections.