I think the problem with Unleashed's '3D platforming' was that it was executed poorly. The werehog was way too repetitve and lacked enough gameplay variety, just beat up enemies non stop and maybe the odd pole climb. Color's platforming was less frequent but much more fun, the levels and gimmicks didn't drag (though some of the bosses could have actually done being longer) and there was tons of variety.
No, but the fact that it didn't shamelessly steal level layouts from old games sure helped. :3 Generally, taking a step back is considered a bad thing, because it means there's a shortage of ideas. How would you feel if they suddenly decided to get rid of Mega Man's charge shot and dash? Oh, wait. This is the same point everyone else keeps trying to hammer to me, but maybe when you play the "superior" version of Unleashed and realize it plays nothing like what you think, perhaps you'll reconsider my stance on Colors. I'll admit the Wii version of Unleashed felt a lot more like a racing game at times, but axing Sonic's speed entirely in Colors (save for a few boring quick-step sections) was a no-no. If you haven't already done it, I recommend playing the DS version. Even though it resembles Sonic Rush art-wise, it plays more like Unleashed would with powerups. This is the kind of gameplay I expected from Colors Wii. It isn't necessarily a bad game, it's just not the greatest Sonic game gameplay-wise imo. There's a lot of ways they could have thrown speed into the mix without making it feel automated or overused, but instead all I see is cubes everywhere.
This is confusing. You say the game that plays like Sonic Rush plays more like Sonic Unleashed? First off, the removal of Mega Man's charge shot and dash could be played off quite well if the game design called for it. Megaman originally didn't have a charge shot, after all. But that's not the point you were trying to make. Removing Megaman's charge shot and dash, in accordance with the point you were trying to make, would be a removal of the games core gameplay mechanics. Just like removing the spindash would be, when level and game design clearly shows that having the spindash would be beneficial for players to have fun. Second off, Sonic's speed was not axed in Colors. You are encouraged to go as fast as possible. Just because there are challenges that preclude going fast, doesn't mean the game doesn't want you to. There is still a boost button, you know. I'll let someone else deal with you "shamelessly stealing level layouts" argument. My head was filled with fuck after reading that, sorry.
OK, see, I don't agree on anything you said, but I do appreciate the fact that you can actually clearly explain your opinion instead of just going 'it's boring lol'. Thank you for that, seriously. But, what I like is how Colors handles the way classic elements are represented over Sonic 4. I mean, sure, Colors did reuse some of the level designs for the Game Land stages, I'll admit. Although I should point out they used plenty of new ones, too. But at least it's done in a more subtle way, and you'd probably have to be intimately familiar with the original games to even catch that detail if somebody didn't tell you. Whereas Sonic 4 was "HEY GUYS REMEMBER CASINO NIGHT ZONE? THAT WAS PRETTY COOL, HUH? HUH?" I don't think Colors and DKCR were really ever supposed to be compared, but the thing is that what they both do is take a few elements of their old games and put them in new situations and use them in new ways. I don't see anything wrong with that, personally. Of course, while I think the level design was a big, big step over Unleashed, where the later levels just started feeling like one big QTE fest in general, I will agree with you that I wish there was more variety of the kinds of ground you walk on. Less big metal paths and more stuff like that field from Planet Wisp. Plus... I'm sorry, but I don't understand at all how you think being able to go into water, which adds in an entirely new way to find paths and secrets, could possibly be made into a bad thing, at all. I'd really appreciate if you explained that. Did people actually really like the way Sonic instantly melted as soon as he came into contact with water as if he were made entirely of sugar?
Yeah, but see, you're not thinking relatively to Sonic games. "Taking a few steps back" in the case of Colors actually added to the game instead of taking away from it. Wisps, swimming/double jump, platforming, more alternate paths, Super Sonic during the stages, badniks, etc. Most of these things were thrown out the window around the time of Heroes, only to be replaced by those dumb fucking Egg Pawns, the homing attack, guns, and Silver. The games since Heroes did have platforming, but it wasn't the same and the controls were ass. And how do I feel about taking away Mega Man's charge shot and dash? Indifferent. Mega Man 9 was still an awesome game. Now, if they took it away from Mega Man X, I'd have a problem with that. I agree that Colors could have and should have done more to synthesize speed with good platforming design, but I don't begrudge them for at least giving me an enjoyable 2.5D experience wrapped in a 3D game world. They could've done far worse, and they already have. Too many times. Jury's still out on Unleashed HD, but I'm not expecting the world. This is the version that for some reason people seemed to hate, but then people also liked Deus Ex 2: Invisible War, and I find that unacceptable. The DS version I found more enjoyable than previous Rush iterations, but I still find Rush's overall design paradigm boring and tired. What do you do in a Rush game? Boost. And jump occasionally. In Sonic Colors DS, you boost, jump, stomp, do a few homing attacks, and use Wisps. The more it departs from the Rushy design of boosting through enemies and entire stages all the time, the more fun it becomes. I enjoyed Sonic better when speed was a matter more strongly influenced by momentum and appropriate level design rather than it being automated with the push of a button or with a bevy of stage objects design to just accelerate you at a moment's notice. It's okay for a while, but it's simply not something I enjoy revisiting. It's boring. That being said, I think Colors DS is the strongest title I've seen DIMPs put out, if only because the level design accommodates the use of the Wisps and gets rid of most of their bottomless pits. Does the Wii version do better? Well, I enjoyed the platforming more, the added bonus of having a third dimension to stretch out in, absolutely lovely eye candy, an enjoyable Game Land side-world that had a lot of potential, and some good bosses. Colors DS does have different bosses for each world, but I didn't find them that much more enjoyable than the Wii version's bosses. It also has the best execution of the most Sonic characters in a game: brief blurbs wrapped around side-missions. Perfect. They're utterly irrelevant to the game otherwise and take up space, but hey, they're there and they're not annoying me, so yay. Now that I think about it, I'm pretty sure I died more from bottomless pits in Colors DS than Colors Wii, so there you have it.
Lol, Imagine how I felt when I found out. I say it plays more like Unleashed because Unleashed and Colors DS are faster and more fluid, whereas Colors Wii is a lot slower and chunkier. Even though the DS version is still 2D, it borrows some elements from Unleashed that make it feel a little less like the Rush games ultimately. The boost really may as well be useless apart from the Aero-Chaser, Interceptor, and Moto Bug sections. The game seems more designed around exploring the levels than giving you the choice of speed or exploration. It's pretty fun when it encourages playing with the Wisps, but other times it just feels kind of restrictive. Giving up already? That's no fun. It became blatantly obvious to me while playing that the maps were being re-used, especially Scrap Brain and Spring Yard. Sonic 4: Episode I can sort of get away with it because it didn't try to sell me on Unleashed-style gameplay with powerups. Classic Sonic levels with modern Sonic controls just don't mix that well for me. Some levels in Game Land just make me feel like I'm playing a Sonic 1 knock-off where you can't duck or roll. Boosting is present, but only for the few instances when the game decides to give you some white Wisps. At no point did I say going underwater is a bad thing. I did use it as an example of the game's unnecessary "shameless plugs", though. I was actually excited when I saw that Sonic could go underwater again because of all the possibilities. I like how they incorporated the Yellow Drill Wisp into underwater gameplay, but I don't like how a lot of the underwater sections are just big empty pools, slowing down the gameplay even more. Comparing them with the Genesis games (which I shouldn't even be doing), there was usually a way around the water (save for Labyrinth Zone), and the pools themselves were smaller with more rings, enemies, and goodies. Here they just feel kind of barren to me. You're welcome.
Sonic Unleashed is the one borrowing from Rush, if anything. The only difference is it's in 3D. Colors is still most definitely a Rush game, but now with Wisps. I'll agree with this. Colors lacks a smooth flow between the 2D and 3D sections for the sake of keeping things ... moving? I guess? This is also my problem with games like Unleashed: the developers apparently never want you to backtrack, so they put invisible walls or program the camera to always look forward or put huge bottomless pits between where you are now and where you were. Unleashed may have much better flow to go with the insane(ly constant) speed, but I think I'd still much rather play stages more like Sonic Adventure's Sonic levels when it comes to 3D Sonic games, because they're not always ushering me forward and there are more open 3D platforming areas. They do still usher me forward to give me that sense of Sonic 3D speed, but the overall level design was more varied and less linear, allowing for more free-roaming exploration and some different ways to get to the end of the level. The few times I was thrown into a "mach speed" section it was awesome, like that one part in Speed Highway. Yeah, instead Sonic 4 sold us on classic gameplay governed by momentum. What it gave us was a fraction of that classic magic cut by bad level design and substandard programming. Hell, I think I had more fun playing the Game Land stages than Sonic 4. Granted, there was a bit too much empty space in the water sections, but I didn't mind it too much on account of the Yellow drill and OHMYGODI'MGOINGTODROWN DUN-DUN DUN-DUN DUN-DUN DUN-DUN DUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNUNNAH!
I agree. Water areas were very reliant on drill wisp (or frenzy wisp if Asteroid coaster) so if I got into underwater area without drill wisp I was pretty pissed 'cos it was a painful experience.
I just liked that it was such a radically different design choice from what I'd normally expect from a Sonic game in general, let alone a 3D console game. Now, if only SEGA can finally get a more firm handle on both control and the camera to be able to deliver a better 3D experience without resorting to long stretches of road made for boosting, sliding, quick-jumping, and quick-stepping. The quick-stepping I don't mind much, but the sliding should just be rolling into a destructive ball of hedgehog spikes, quick-jumping shouldn't even be a separate move, and boosting should be either severely curtailed, retooled, better utilized, or eradicated. Same with the homing attack, although I'd understand more if that stayed unless it was used for too many homing chains. The only moves I really enjoyed using from Unleashed and Colors are the wall-kicking and the stomping. Those are actually very fun to use, but like the jump, the wall-kicking often gets me into more trouble than I wanted. It launches me too far with too little control or traction.
I don't agree with the Boost being removed, Colors showed that it can be used for more than LOLSPEED, there are several parts that can only be accessed via boosting in a boost pad () or Air boosting, it only has to be more integrated into the level design, like the Spindash was in Sonic 2 or the shields were in Sonic 3&K, and hell, the boost in Colors doesn't get near as much use overall as it did in Unleashed thanks to the level design and changing the source of it (From rings to enemies/wisp containers).
The problem I have with the boost is the same problem I have with the homing attack: the resulting level design. I don't want to play levels where I'm constantly expected to boost through enemies in a straight line (or even a loop o.o) or use the homing attack on a chain of them, especially to get over a bottomless chasm or something unimaginatively cheap like that. However, I would like to do interesting things with them, like: 1. Out-race a trap wall or cieling that's trying to crush me by boosting 2. Use the homing attack at the right time to hit a boss or make it through a timing- and/or reflex-based obstacle puzzle (!= QTE) 3. Use the boost in mid-air to coil up into a ball and richochet off the wall (rhyme'd, biatch!) at geometrically accurate angles, effectively combining the boost and the homing attack into a multi-directional mid-air spindash. Other than an utter lack of innovative utilization, I just find the boosting and homing attack, in their current state, to be utterly easy cop-outs to better moves and level designs, not to mention making Sonic gameplay as piss-easy as tapping A to win. I want to see them do more with those moves and make them more than sloppy staples held over from Sonic Rush Unleashed and Sonic Adventure, respectively. Make them more interesting, and mix them together with the whole point of Sonic being a hedgehog rather than a bunny: rolling into a spiny nigh-indestructible ball of death. Honestly, though? I just miss jumping into your enemies and aiming your jumps. And the double-tap made possible by the Insta-Shield. They're not necessary, but they'd sure make Sonic feel more like Sonic and less like Let's Tap A to Win. EDIT: And yes, I'm aware Colors did do both #1 and #2, and I liked it when they did.
I kind of wish they had just gone with more open 3D sections instead of all of the 2D sections. There are a (very) few instances where I think this worked really well in Colors like Sweet Mountain's hidden shortcut (I think it's in act 2) or the ring around the last planet in Asteroid Coaster Act 1. It would've been nice to see more of this, especially if they could manage to incorporate Wisp abilities into it. lol irrelevant One element of level design I miss in Colors is water running. It was more than just "hold X to win" because you had to make sure you maintained speed by keeping yourself properly aligned or else you would die. It's still present in Colors, but only during short 2D sections, and doesn't present the same challenge. If something like this was combined with the underwater sections, it would have made for some very interesting and possibly much less linear level designs. Also to clarify since there seems to be some misunderstanding, my problem isn't the fact that Super Sonic is in the game, but the fact that he's playable in the levels, which aren't really that well-suited for him to begin with. There are a lot of other ways they could have made Super Sonic more interesting and exciting than before, but instead they just used him as fanservice. I think I preferred the way he was handled in the Wii version of Unleashed. Instead of being exactly the same as every other final boss battle, they decided to soften him up a bit, making things a little more challenging. It was more interesting to see the character used to make some creative challenges instead of just extra invincibility and speed in levels.
I'm saying he shouldn't just be speed sneakers and invincibility. There's no point to Super Sonic in levels if most of them are too short or don't even allow you to go fast. Like I said before, this is 2011. Leave Classic Sonic to Sonic 4 and make the modern games actually feel modern.
I seriously fucking hate you. And again, this is why they can't make good games. We bitch about not having him playable...and then when we FINALLY get super sonic playable in all levels, some whiney bitch goes and says this shit. Basically..."I'd like my soup really hot, but could you make it icey cold too"
>Spend 10 years complaining for the return of Super Sonic in stages. >Complain that it's a bad idea when it finally does happen. God forbid an extra to a game can't be enjoyed. Too bad they didn't include an option to enable or disable it. Oh. Wait. The whole point of the character was to be an overpowered mess to reward players dedicated enough to go after it. Sticking it as a final boss only thing, and lets face it, no Super Sonic final boss has ever been quite as good as when it was sprung up in Sonic 3K, just makes it a one-off gimmick that's been played out far too much.
God forbid someone has a differing option. Or even that he may not have ben one of the "we" that bitched about having him on levels. Maybe he never wanted that all along?
This is why we're gonna end up with Sonic Adventure 3 as an anniversary game. Like, I understand the whole "differing opinion" thing, I can understand (well, not completely) the whole level design issues (personally I think that the level design in this game was pretty damn good), but how can you hate having Super Sonic playable in levels? Really? Because it feels too classic?
Because not even on the classics I cared for him, personally. Never liked him (StC apart). Not sure of PC2's opinion.
Overriding the topic with this: SEGA America Blog | Sonic Colors Guide: Tropical Resort, Act 1 While there's nothing of relative interest here in terms of secrets in the level, we do see some light shed on how the scoring system works. In regards to Tropical Resort Act 1: It's a nice little subtlety that I greatly appreciate and would like to see it continue.
