The Sonic the Hedgehog Headcanon Thread of Lore and Time Stones

BlackHole · Nov 20, 2023

raphael_fc said:

What I actually wanted to see about 06 is a coherent explanation about everything Mephiles did.
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Responding to this here since it's a headcanon explanation.

Mephiles did what he did because he can not go to a point in time he was already at in his past, but could drop someone else off to run interference. He just needed the right sucker, which was Silver.

Mephiles could not unite with Iblis as when Iblis took a physical form it 'gained' it's own mind, which prevented Mephiles becoming the mind in question. A primal, bestial mind, but a mind nontheless. He could not go back to when Iblis was released because he was already at that point in time fighting Shadow in the Dusty Desert.

With Silver causing interference, either he would see Iblis released earlier, when he wasn't stuck fighting Shadow, be freed up from his fight with Shadow and can thus beeline to Iblis, or Iblis' release would be delayed enough for him to reach/cause it himself, and merge while Iblis had no mind to prevent it. If none of the above, well what's he lost beyond a bit longer looking for another sucker?

I wonder if... might be an interesting prequel comic, this idea I just had.

DigitalDuck · Nov 20, 2023

BlackHole said:

raphael_fc said:

What I actually wanted to see about 06 is a coherent explanation about everything Mephiles did.
Click to expand...

Responding to this here since it's a headcanon explanation.

Mephiles did what he did because he can not go to a point in time he was already at in his past, but could drop someone else off to run interference. He just needed the right sucker, which was Silver.

Mephiles could not unite with Iblis as when Iblis took a physical form it 'gained' it's own mind, which prevented Mephiles becoming the mind in question. A primal, bestial mind, but a mind nontheless. He could not go back to when Iblis was released because he was already at that point in time fighting Shadow in the Dusty Desert.

With Silver causing interference, either he would see Iblis released earlier, when he wasn't stuck fighting Shadow, be freed up from his fight with Shadow and can thus beeline to Iblis, or Iblis' release would be delayed enough for him to reach/cause it himself, and merge while Iblis had no mind to prevent it. If none of the above, well what's he lost beyond a bit longer looking for another sucker?

I wonder if... might be an interesting prequel comic, this idea I just had.
Click to expand...

Not a fan of this explanation - Mephiles is more than happy to send other characters back to times where they already exist, and characters travel this way with the Chaos Emeralds too.

I still prefer the idea that Iblis is released by Elise's death but Mephiles can't fuse with this form, only when released from her crying. Most of what he does is done to cement the relationship between Sonic and Elise - he sends Silver back to provide enough of a distraction for Sonic to allow Elise to be re-kidnapped by Eggman. He could've killed Sonic at any time but it wouldn't have the emotional impact on Elise without all they'd gone through together first.

BlackHole · Nov 20, 2023

DigitalDuck said:

Not a fan of this explanation - Mephiles is more than happy to send other characters back to times where they already exist, and characters travel this way with the Chaos Emeralds too.
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Never said other characters were subject to the limitation, only Mephiles. As (half of) a God, different rules may apply to him than it would others running around with miraculous gemstones with the ultimate power.

And as you said, Mephiles sends others to varying points in time, but consider that he himself doesn't seem to go with them, nor does he go with the simplest option of finding where Iblis was released in the original timeline, then going back to the then and fusing.

As a time travelling entity, a lot of things don't make sense unless there's some unspecified limitation, which is why I believe it to be that two of him specifically can't be at the same point in time.

For instance, why didn't he go back in time and break the Sceptre of Darkness to free himself before the events of the game, giving himself more headway and one less opponent in Shadow?
He can't, he's already then.

Why not go back and herd himself to Iblis at the initial incident?

I don't think, at any point, there's two Mephiles in the same point in time, outside of the clones you see in his final boss fight.

DigitalDuck said:

I still prefer the idea that Iblis is released by Elise's death but Mephiles can't fuse with this form, only when released from her crying. Most of what he does is done to cement the relationship between Sonic and Elise - he sends Silver back to provide enough of a distraction for Sonic to allow Elise to be re-kidnapped by Eggman. He could've killed Sonic at any time but it wouldn't have the emotional impact on Elise without all they'd gone through together first.
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Except Iblis is out and about in the future, in a future where Silver didn't go back and interfere. So something caused Elise to cry in the original timeline, all Mephiles would have to do is go to that point in time and place, as mentioned above.

raphael_fc · Nov 20, 2023

BlackHole said:

Except Iblis is out and about in the future, in a future where Silver didn't go back and interfere. So something caused Elise to cry in the original timeline, all Mephiles would have to do is go to that point in time and place, as mentioned above.
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I thought Iblis was released because Elise had died?

AdmiralSalt · Nov 20, 2023

Why would Mephiles get entangled in fights with Shadow, thus preventing him from being present for the release of Iblis, instead of uniting with Iblis? Wouldn’t that be his first priority?

BlackHole · Nov 20, 2023

raphael_fc said:

I thought Iblis was released because Elise had died?
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So then why not just kill Elise and be done with it?

AdmiralSalt said:

Why would Mephiles get entangled in fights with Shadow, thus preventing him from being present for the release of Iblis, instead of uniting with Iblis? Wouldn’t that be his first priority?
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The present self that's locking his future self out wouldn't know Elise was going to die and release Iblis.

AdmiralSalt · Nov 20, 2023

But why would Mephiles bother with Shadow at all? Upon being released from the scepter, wouldn’t he immediately want to go to when and where Iblis is released?

raphael_fc · Nov 20, 2023

BlackHole said:

So then why not just kill Elise and be done with it?
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DigitalDuck said:

I still prefer the idea that Iblis is released by Elise's death but Mephiles can't fuse with this form, only when released from her crying.
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If he needed Iblis to be released via Elise's crying, then this somehow could make sense. He couldn't just kill Elise because he couldn't join Iblis that way (somehow).

DigitalDuck · Nov 21, 2023

BlackHole said:

DigitalDuck said:

I still prefer the idea that Iblis is released by Elise's death but Mephiles can't fuse with this form, only when released from her crying. Most of what he does is done to cement the relationship between Sonic and Elise - he sends Silver back to provide enough of a distraction for Sonic to allow Elise to be re-kidnapped by Eggman. He could've killed Sonic at any time but it wouldn't have the emotional impact on Elise without all they'd gone through together first.
Click to expand...

Except Iblis is out and about in the future, in a future where Silver didn't go back and interfere. So something caused Elise to cry in the original timeline, all Mephiles would have to do is go to that point in time and place, as mentioned above.
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Actually reading the bit you quoted might help.

BlackHole said:

The present self that's locking his future self out wouldn't know Elise was going to die and release Iblis.
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If he didn't already know this, when did he learn it? We can see from his form that he sent Silver back before fighting Shadow in both Flame Core and Dusty Desert - if he didn't know then, why did he send Silver back? If he did know then... why did he send Silver back? He wasn't around at all during the time of Iblis' release at this point, he could just go straight there.

BlackHole said:

And as you said, Mephiles sends others to varying points in time, but consider that he himself doesn't seem to go with them, nor does he go with the simplest option of finding where Iblis was released in the original timeline, then going back to the then and fusing.
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This "simplest option" is available to him with or without the restriction. In fact, it seems as though the first thing he does on release is travel to the future to find out when Iblis was released, and that's when he sends Silver back.

BlackHole said:

As a time travelling entity, a lot of things don't make sense unless there's some unspecified limitation, which is why I believe it to be that two of him specifically can't be at the same point in time.
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I agree, which is why I believe he has to create the conditions for Iblis' proper release though Elise crying.

BlackHole said:

For instance, why didn't he go back in time and break the Sceptre of Darkness to free himself before the events of the game, giving himself more headway and one less opponent in Shadow?
He can't, he's already then.

Why not go back and herd himself to Iblis at the initial incident?
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He never goes back in time to before he's released from the Scepter, but that doesn't imply a one-Mephiles limit. It's not uncommon for time travel to be restricted to the creation of the time machine, "creation" in this case being his release from the Scepter. He also never sends anyone else back before his release either - why doesn't he send someone else to break the Scepter earlier to give himself more headway, or send someone else to herd himself to Iblis at the initial incident?

BlackHole said:

I don't think, at any point, there's two Mephiles in the same point in time, outside of the clones you see in his final boss fight.
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The same is true for every character in the game except for Sonic and Omega - this doesn't imply a rule.

The Sonic the Hedgehog Headcanon Thread of Lore and Time Stones

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