The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread

In b4 "whiner levels are sky rocketing."

Seriously, we've been saying this since the delay. This shouldn't come as something 'shocking' or 'shits going down.' We knew there would be minimal changes from the very moment they announced the delay. Oh well. Here's to Ep 2 not headed for shitsville as well.

 

If the changes are only going to be one thing and the rest is going to be ignored, they might as well release the game now and get it over and done with. Just shows how sloppy they're being with requests of stuff being changed. They've had mostly-positive reviews from game sites, now they need opinions from the players themselves.

 

"Acceleration" was already confirmed as a specific item they're addressing. "Jump physics" technically makes two things. Endri's mention of level designs being made less cheap counts as a rather substantial third, if you really care about keeping count.

 

Except the players, outside of Retro, will/are pretty much praising how perfect this side-scrolling game is/will be.

EDIT: Also, I didn't mention level designs, I said "traps". That includes the moving walls of Lost Labyrinth's and Mad Gear's ACTs 3. Even the most skilled player cannot avoid then without dying at least twice, even as Super Sonic.

 

^ This is true enough, and that's something that worries me, I admit. Some people just won't notice a lot of potential shortcomings until they've had time to digest the game, and that's probably skewed the impressions a bit more toward the positivity side than the game really deserves.

Traps are part of level design, Endri, you know that. I can specifically say that I hate Metropolis Zone because of the Slicers and Shellcrackers, but that's still because some idiot designed the levels with idiotic badnik placement.

If you think I meant overall layouts, well, I didn't. So there, misunderstanding clarified.

 

Something else me and Aaron went over slightly is how people who don't give a fuck about Sonic won't notice that the game sucks ass because they haven't played a Sonic game in 15 years. The people who actually know how the game should feel will realize it sucks ass.


And just for you guys, the actual exact things I talked about with him, including typo's!

And he did tell me he would pass this stuff on and it would be in Episode 2 if anything. But said for sure that it wouldn't be in Ep1 because Dimps is already going to have trouble finishing the small things Sega has told them to fix in time for the deadline.


I kind of feel like more of an asshole than normal right now, because most of this was said in private, but fuck it, people need to understand that this game sucks. There's still slight hope for the second episode if they actually put effort into it.

 

Ken Ballough gets away with saying shit like "This is Sonic 4 as we would have imagined it", yet Mel Gibson uses a perfectly harmless word like "Nigger" and the whole world is up in arms.

Something is very wrong!

 

Well, when you're talking about stuff like the pre-rendered level art, I'd be surprised if they had time to address those concerns. The mixed-up sound effects (rolling using the spin dash sound, for example) is one thing I'd actually expect to see changed in Episode I, since it's probably as simple as swapping a few bits of code around (don't quote me on that uneducated guess, though).

Your evaluation of the Special Stages being difficult to use, I... really can't see, to be honest, I thought from the moment I saw what the Special Stages were that this particular "twist" was the one time the game actually managed to improve on a classic concept, since the Special Stages in Sonic 1 are so gods-damned hard to control as it is; having control over Sonic really doesn't offer as much control as controlling the tilt of the stage itself appears to. The only ungraceful aspect I can imagine is controlling these via any means but tilt or analog. That, and they didn't really look difficult in any of the leaked footage I saw. Frankly they looked piss-easy to control and piss-easy to complete (although I've only seen Special Stages 1 and 3).

The rolling and running complaints, actually, should have been passed along well before now, as they were both brought up many a time even when the leaks had only just come out. I don't want to read too much into this point one way or another, so it'd be damn fine if RubyEclipse could clarify where this factors into Episode I the next time he's surfing this particular thread. This point did manage to ring an alarm bell with me, however.

EDIT: I had to resist the temptation to start another argument about the difference between a game having issues and a game "sucking ass." And I had a devil of a time resisting that, but that way lies madness, so it's best we avoid that road.

 

Oh Jesus tits McChrist you have no fucking idea. They are so fucking bad. I like the S1 special stage a lot, they might even be my favorites of the classic series, but these have the most hardgay time limits ever, and don't really control well either.

 

If it sells, why bother. We all know that Sonic will NEVER return to his roots no matter HOW HARD THEY TRIED. Half of the original team is long gone, and there's no way to bring them back.

If the kids will eat them up, then let them eat them up. This might be a good thing that Sonic is still around for the next generations of fans. And we all know that Sega CAN'T PLEASE EVERYONE.

Will the game suck balls? HELL NO! Will it meet our standards. HELL NO! Will it be decent? Most likely yes.

 

I can barely stand the Sonic 1 Special Stages apart from their trippy aesthetic value, which might be why I don't see a problem with the new approach to them.

 

Not that at any time I expressed my true feelings about the game, but if I had, I would day that "this game is bad, and you should all feel bad."

Also, you gotta loooooove Special Stage 5. [/sarcams] Even the learning curve of the SSs are stupid. 1 to 3 are easy, 4 is okay, 5 is insane, 6 and 7 are unfair. Though 6 and 7 are quite fine, and 6 I personally enjoyed, since it happens to be a huge-ass maze, and you have to find the right path to the emerald. 7 is unfair because there are bumpers purposedly positioned to throw you at the nearest "!" block at every turn, and the "bumpy" Sonic physics in the SSs doesn't help at all, yet SS7 manages to be enjoyable (imo) because you start just beside the emerald, but you need 99 rings for the door to it to open, and you have four "chambers" to search for such 99 rings.

Too bad the game's engine sucks. Frustration guaranteed!

 

Polygon Jim and Endri.

If you ever get into another conference with Ruby, ask whether Episode 2 will lock on to Episode 1.
If it indeed does, then ask whether the changes implemented in Episode 2 will act as a patch for Episode 1.
That is really important. If Ep. 1 remains the same and Ep. 2 is better, it will feel very wierd when transitioning between the two when they are locked on.

Other issues, how many episodes are planned. Gives us an idea of how many opportunities for steady improvement there are as the game progresses.
You techie's can break down the coding for each episode and tell them what's wrong with it. Aaron and Ken can then relay it back to Dimps and SoJ.

Ask if the Art clashes will be resolves as well and if the art style can be patched for episode 1, adding in all the necessry new effects.
The backdrops have always looked pretty, its the foreground which had the problems. That and Sonic's model looks really wierd when its cel-shaded.

Did they say the Boosters can be removed from the levels? Can't they just be removed without much programming effort?
Are they needed to keep the levels stable or are they just there to keep up the pace?

Is the level design itself, or do the evidently poor physics make the level design feel bad.
We know the physics are bad, but is it the case of "Bad physics and Bad level design" or "Bad physics ruining good level design"?
Which of the two, clarification needed.
On a side-ish note. Are there any parts of the level which Sonic alone cannot access?

What about the music. Are they currently placeholders/WIP's or are they final tracks?

Are there animated level transitions? Will there be animated level transitions?

 

This game is a mess because SEGA don't care. And the annoying thing is, too many of the fans (meaning the people who avidly play Sonic games, not random kids and casuals) will sweep any problems under the rug because it's just another game. Fixing the jump inertia is one thing, but there's so much else that needs to be seen to. Slope behaviour is simply awful, and the fact that Sonic doesn't behave like ball when he's curled up completely defeats half of the original Sonic mechanics (and poor slopes defeat the rest). There's the issue of animation speed too, which makes Sonic utterly jarring to look at. If he's going to walk on a slope like this, he should at least walk slowly.

More than anything right now, I want SEGA to start telling us what they're changing. That way, our words will be 'valid' again. And if E2 really does end up having more fixes, add on will be absolutely necessary.

EDIT: Lol, ninja'd somewhat

 

Well I can already answer some of those.

The music is final it will not change.

Most of the levels are poorly designed, although it's the best Dimps have made which isn't saying much.


The dashpads can't be removed without major code overhaul. They are there so that you don't notice how fucked up the slope physics are. If you jump over them you can nearly walk up walls without any momentum.

 

So the level design is bearable, but its the physics which sticks the final nail in the coffin as it were.
Did they say the level design will be changed or is it like the physics and cannot be resolved in time for the deadline.

I assume most of the other questions will be addressed later.

Also, is the homing attack in and of itself actually that bad? We know the rest of the physics are bad, but does this one addition literally break the game?

I toyed with the idea of asking if they could rename Episode 1 to Sonic the hedgehog 4: Prologue.
Thinking about it now, I'd say a more appropriate name is Sonic the Hedgehog 4: BETA.

Nonetheless, I have faith that stuff will happen by Episode 2. Maybe because I'm stupid...I don't know. Things had better change though.
If Dimps and SoJ are pressured like they are now, Sonic 4 could have the potential to be better than the classics. So long as they listen to what the Techie's say.

 

The only time it's really used is pointless homing attack chains, but it works fine for what it was. Although there is one part of the game that is nearly impossible to beat if you use the homing attack. There's a wall chasing scene in Lost Labyrinth that if you homing attack during one part you die, because you end up going to slow because you bounce up from the enemy and the wall catches up.

The other questions I don't know if I can get a straight answer to. I can try Monday but I doubt I'll get a solid answer.

 

Slightly fixed. In fact they could remove the dashpads, but this wouldn't make the game any better.

Not in Episode 1.

In fact, we are doing this already. The problem is that changes will only take place in Ep2, because 1 is pretty much done.

 

Looks like Dimps have a bunch of poor programmers who have no idea how to create a solid Sonic engine. Even some fangame engines work better than Sonic 4.

It was easy to know that the boosters were because of the physics. The entire game is littered with them in awkward places where they shouldn't be.

As for the music, somebody should just kick Jun Senoue off the game for later episodes. His work in Episode 1 just shows how poor he can be most of the time.

Just release the game already. Dimps aren't committed to working on a true sequel and they've messed a lot of stuff up on their own ends because of the vision they had for this game. Honestly, they should've built Sonic 4 on the Colours engine and work on it in-house rather than it being 2% Sonic Team, 98% Dimps.

Everybody knows that no matter how they try, Sega can't make a decent Sonic game without fucking up somewhere. Want to play something good that's Sonic related? There's a lot of fangames and hacks which can do the job. That's how far you're going to get with some sort of newer game.

 

I'm going to jump the gun and say that everything you see here is final, and they're just delaying the game to find any bugs in the system and to iron them out.

God damnit, it's the previous Sonic 4 topic all over again. This shit will closed the moment you once again open your trap and complain on and on. We all agree that this isn't a REAL Sonic 4, It will NEVER exist in the condition Sega is in. But at least bear in mind that it is far from being the WORST platformer on the market!