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The Sonic 3 Music Ramble

Discussion in 'General Sonic Discussion' started by Morris, Jun 22, 2022.

  1. ParadoxDreams

    ParadoxDreams

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    I really doubt all of the tracks that were made for Sonic 3 came from Jackson's beatboxing. Most, if not all of the folks involved with the Sonic 3 soundtrack from the MJ/Buxer team were already talented songwriters. Yes, he did make a demo tape & he did give ideas during the entire process, but his contributions are unclear except for the general number of "1-3 cues" that Brad has said before. Another point would be his hectic schedule from 1993, where he was working on short films & attending events a lot (prime example would be his cut promotion for the film "Addam's Family Values" & work was beginning on the short film for "Dangerous" iirc, at least storyboarding/choreography).

    Brad Buxer's definitely the one who came up with the original demo of "Stranger In Moscow" / the Sonic 3 credits theme. It doesn't even seem like Michael knew that "Stranger in Moscow" was taken from the credits theme, as even as early as November 1993, Michael's story is "Brad played some chords on the keyboard & I started writing a song from there." Also with Brad not taking credit, he just kinda does that.
     
  2. MasterDreamcaster

    MasterDreamcaster

    Running Up That Green Hill Member
    I want to share this for the 29th anniversary of Sonic 3.
    Brad Buxer tells the story of ending credits theme and how it evolved into Stranger In Moscow.
     
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  3. JaxTH

    JaxTH

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    Jack shit.
    This is from the MJ leaks, right?
     
  4. sonicthesnot

    sonicthesnot

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    Wow - it was so cool to hear him playing the Sonic 3 credits version of Stranger in Moscow... this might be the closest thing to a demo version of the MJ tracks we've gotten in 29 years LOL
     
  5. ParadoxDreams

    ParadoxDreams

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    This is such a beautiful video, hearing him to the credits to Sonic 3 just right here in the moment made me teary-eyed, reminds me of why I'm here & how I ended up pretty much finding myself & my interests.

    Nope! I have a whole list of what was included in the leaks (as I need to, seeing how I'm so focused on archiving the history of the "Dangerous" project), but there were some fantastic videos in that leak.



    You can see here the masters at work, Brad recording the keyboard, Michael & Bruce giving feedback to make sure everything's good. There's a longer cut in this video which is hella funny, it's from August 22nd, 1991.


    A day where Michael's not at the studio, finishing production on "Monkey Business", which was basically everyone on the project's favorite song (who ended up being shocked when the song was barely even considered for the project!). They've decorated the studio to be Hawaiian themed & are getting absolutely wasted, with Brad doing a real-time remix of the song with samples of MJ's voice (the "down, down" and other samples).
     
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  6. Hmmm, I'm gonna get allot of shit for this one, but it never felt to me like those guys (MJ Team) where really 'in' on the project that deep. Not as deep as the fans thought back in the day anyway. Just a hunch that turned out to be kinda true.

    It's kind of a tricky one for me because I find it hard to know how I really feel about the whole MJ/S3 thing these day after with all that has happened.

    Turns out all my fav tracks from S3 are from the Japanese composers anyway. But you can hear the MJ influence, not through writing, but through the style.

    I was never a massive Jacko fan but I did really dig the early pre MIDI/Dx7 stuff & the Jackson 5. Those vids are kinda cool. Reminds me of working in a studio, not as fun as it looks and no natural light haha. Even with the big exciting projects it can be ' lets get this shit done so I can go outside and attempt to get a tan' - I always looked like a ghost
     
  7. saxman

    saxman

    Oldbie Tech Member
    That's really neat to hear. I'd like him to talk about some of the other tracks he did, because so far, this is the only one I've heard him discuss.

    I have a real problem with people choosing not to give credit where credit is due though. No excuse for that. But, what can you do?
     
  8. Felik

    Felik

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    Man, this is really interesting and a little heartbreaking.
    MJ was no doupt a talented composer/performer but such behaviour is inexucable.

    I hope more people see this video.
     
  9. ParadoxDreams

    ParadoxDreams

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    Yea, first time I've ever heard him describe it that way. Every other time he's described it (and the only other way other Jackson producers describe it as) is "If you don't speak up at the moment you write it, you're not getting credit." Not excusing it of course, bit scummy imo.

    Also, I believe "The Ultimate Collection" was something Michael didn't have much involvement on, because I know some of the unreleased songs on there were actually still in the middle of being worked on. "Beautiful Girl", which was included on it, was still actively in production (Footage below is from 2005, "The Ultimate Collection" is from 2004), and that release was during the big "Anti-Sony" thing that Michael was doing at the time.


    One of the best things to come out that album is "The Way You Love Me", another Jackson-Buxer banger that should've been on Invincible. I 100% believe almost every song they made together is some of the best work Michael's ever done.
     
  10. MasterDreamcaster

    MasterDreamcaster

    Running Up That Green Hill Member
    DSC_0561.jpg brad-buxer-1.jpg brad-buxer-2.jpg JacksonNakayamaSonic.jpeg mjSonic1.jpg

    I wish Brad could tell more about other tracks. Like, why he decided to use a song from his band or which composition Michael did for the game.
     
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  11. MasterDreamcaster

    MasterDreamcaster

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  12. XCubed

    XCubed

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    Wow! I read about the circumstances around this, but to see this and hear him play it is mind blowing. I really wish he could tell us about other tracks, regardless of what made it in or not, but I’m dying to know about the composition behind Launch Base Zone.
     
  13. RetroJordan91

    RetroJordan91

    The REAL Blue Sphere Guy Member
    I also am curious to know about the Competition Mode track since that’s the only one that doesn’t have any sampling.. I mean it’s easy to figure out the inspiration for CNZ and ICZ but LBZ and Competition have always been the question marks for me.

    But unfortunately I feel like we will never know the true story since Brad seems to be very difficult to get an interview with
     
  14. XCubed

    XCubed

    Will Someday Own a Rent-A-Center Oldbie
    the competition music SLAPS too! It’s strange that it’s the only composition that uses the drums/percussion from the rest of the soundtrack.
     
  15. sonicthesnot

    sonicthesnot

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    Competition select was IMO the best of the MJ tracks and one of the best tracks in the game. It screams early 90s New Jack Swing, has a great beat, and sounds great on the Genesis sound chip. Too bad it gets so little recognition since it's not heard much in the game.

    MJ was known to screw people out of credits (and royalties). Same thing happened to one of his other keyboardists, Greg Phillinganes on "Don't Stop till you Get Enough". He's spoken on the issue multiple times, but like Buxer, let the issue go in favor of keeping a long-term relationship with MJ.

    See here: https://www.smoothradio.com/features/dont-stop-til-you-get-enough-meaning-facts-lyrics/

    "In 2016, musician Greg Phillinganes alleged that Jackson played him an early demo of the song and said "it needs another part," after which Phillinganes suggested the bridge of the song. The two apparently agreed to rate his contribution at 10% of the song, but he was later informed that his contribution would be considered just an arrangement. Quincy Jones has since backed these claims. Despite this, various issues of the single list both Jackson and Phillinganes as its composers."
     
  16. ParadoxDreams

    ParadoxDreams

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    Competition is weird, I've gone through some of the discographies of the MJ-Buxer producers (mostly albums that a few of them worked on together) and I can't find a single track that sounds like it, same goes for Launch Base Zone. I will say though that I did find some bangers (Stevie Wonder's "Characters" album might have some of my favorite songs of all time)

    Yea, I've heard from the past from his colleagues and some friends who've talked to him that he's very shy, and his relationship with Michael meant a lot to him, so he doesn't talk about it much.
     
  17. MasterDreamcaster

    MasterDreamcaster

    Running Up That Green Hill Member
    Brad was in Stevie's band before he joined Michael's team. Interesting chronology: early 80s - The Jetzons, middle 80s - Stevie Wonder's band, end of the 80s - Brad starts working with Michael.
    All of the people who worked on Sonic 3 and were members of Buxer's team, also were involved in making of HIStory album (except C. Cirocco Jones).
    Sonic 3 is a point, or a link between past and future (just like that album's full title: HIStory: Past, Present and Future - Book I), because the game features a song from the 1980s and an early version of a 1990s Jackson's song.
     
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  18. ParadoxDreams

    ParadoxDreams

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    There's even more, he was living with Matthew Wilder ("Break My Stride") after the Jetzons broke up, and then he would end up being Stevie's keyboardist for a couple years, which would help him find work with big artists from the 60s/70s like the Temptations. Stevie's live shows at that time were top-notch, no doubt due to how tight the band was. In fact, it was due to his work with Stevie that he met Isaiah Sanders, who'd later become Michael's keyboardist starting in 1993.

    Basically this is just me saying listen to some of the stuff Buxer worked on, he helped write some of the best and underrated tracks in Jackson's discography like "The Way You Love Me" & his other stuff with Stevie is impeccable.
     
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  19. sonicthesnot

    sonicthesnot

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    I've heard several people comparing competition select to MJ's "You Rock my World" which was released well after Sonic 3 and without Buxer's involvement. But I always found that comparison to be a stretch.
     
  20. ParadoxDreams

    ParadoxDreams

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    Absolutely a MASSIVE stretch lol. "You Rock My World" was written by Rodney Jerkins & LaShawn Daniels, which I believe was in the very late 90s (1998/1999) when they first started working with Michael on what would evolve into "Invincible" (which around 1999 was a very different album that basically got scrapped).

    The song was basically done when Rodney & LaShawn first presented the demo to Michael, which you can hear in the couple snippets of the Writer's Demo that Rodney has shared on Instagram over the last few years.