The Competition Menu theme ever so slightly reminds me of "Wanna Be Startin' Somethin' ", the way the bass and chords go together while doing two separate things....if it makes any sense. I'm too tired for this lol Just for consideration since we're on the subject, the song "Money" gives me Competition Menu vibes. I'm not sure if Buxer was in on this one since everything I've found says it was produced by Mike himself (although considering how Buxer described the situation above with "Moscow"....). From what I can tell though, the chords are too different for me to call it anything other than a neat little coinkydink. It's likely another case of popular chord progressions and arrangments; if I was near any of my equipment, just for kicks I'd see just exactly what the chords are for both songs. It still made me go "Hey, wait a fuckin' minute" the last time I heard it.
Yes, Brad Buxer himself confirmed that he worked on "Money". He at least did drums & percussion, which is because he used two samples from Norman Cook's "Skip to My Loops" for the base drums on the track ("Tokyo DJ Theme" & "Rock that Jazz"). Same sample CD that he got the "Woo!" & "Come On!" sample for the Miniboss Theme. Here's a part of "Money", listen to the drums during the main track & the chorus. Here's "Tokyo DJ Theme" & "Rock that Jazz" from Norman Cook's "Skip to My Loops". In terms of the situation itself of crediting, it's weird. I'm pretty sure a lot of tracks on the "HIStory" album lack credits, maybe because it wouldn't fit in the booklet. Teddy Riley (who helped produce half the tracks on Michael's "Dangerous" album) says that Michael was too willing to give him credit for things he barely worked on, such as the track "Dangerous".
I've just remembered another video: https://vk.com/video-196618611_456239028 The way he plays this song, it really reminds me of Staff Roll from Sonic 3.
It's beautiful. Straight up magic & I regularly go back to this video cuz like, it's just incredible. I hope an earlier demo of S.I.M. surfaces one of these days. I've heard two of them years ago & the most notable thing was the extra percussion on it (arguably much closer to the Sonic 3 version, but still pretty different) + some earlier vocals from Michael. But I'm hoping for something from February 1994 or somewhere around there.
Maybe everyone else has figured this out already, but the drum sample featured in Staff Roll (at the 03:11 mark) is the exact same one that's later heard in They Don't Care About Us (at the 01:29 mark).
There is also a sample used throughout credits theme. Something similar (or even the same) is heard in unreleased track "Space Dance", which is related to another Michael Jackson / SEGA collaboration – Space Channel 5:
I'm pretty sure that we're talking about either the exact same or a very similar sample. Also worth noting how much this track sounds like Launch Base. Edit: They literally acknowledge that in the video, too.
About confirmed connections and coincidences. What's confirmed is that Naoto Ohshima is a fan of Michael Jackson. Design for Sonic's shoes was inspired by Jackson's boots: And Michael became a fan of Sonic. It's kind of a full circle. But how, when and who suggested to Michael the idea of composing music for Sonic 3 – that's a 30+ years mystery... What's quite possibly a coincidence is that Big Arms theme has a part very similar to Staff Roll theme. Here they are played one after the other (at 48:33): Is there a chance that Brad Buxer listened to early Sonic 3 soundtrack and decided to link end credits theme with final boss music? Well, it's unlikely, because different teams worked separately. What's also unique is how Sonic 3 walked Sonic 2's path again: - a sample from "Entrance of the Gladiators"? Check (Mystic Cave and Carnival Night). - tracks from the 80s? Check ("Sweet" from 1988 and "Hard Times" from 1982). - music from later parts of those games turning into songs? Check ("Sweet Sweet Sweet" and "Stranger in Moscow").
No. Safe to say MJ's team had never worked with video games before and they weren't going to start then. This was just another job. Don't think there's a conspiracy to be found here.
Recently I started entertaining the thought that it's not completely out of the realm of possibilities Brad Buxer and/or his team heard some of the tracks either directly or indirectly from the game at a certain point, and someone really loved the beat in Mushroom Hill Zone when they heard it and made a small homage to it by taking almost the entire thing and making it "Knuckles'" theme (which is really just a hacked up version of the Mini Boss theme, which is what came first given that some Mini Boss theme note data is still left in the song, oops). I mean who wouldn't? Song's funky as fuck. Speaking of that, did everyone also just forget that whoever did that song wasn't above taking riffs from other people's work and took a part from Rob Base & DJ EZ Rock's "It Takes Two"? It was really popular back in the early 90s. Miniboss also seems to have a little "jumping sound effect" which I wonder if the original demo track sampled Sonic's jump sound effect. It definitely doesn't seem unlikely that someone working on the replacement tracks got incredibly lazy and just started basing most of the songs off preexisting work. Aside from Launch Base Zone and Competition, which who knows how original they really are.
Well, I thought that Mini Boss and Knuckles Theme reference "Blood On The Dance Floor". The song was released in 1997, but originally recorded during production of the album "Dangerous" (1990 / 1991). Brad Buxer did drum programming. "Dangerous" was the newest album by Michael Jackson when Sonic 3 entered development. Buxer was recording tracks for the game while on tour for that album's support. So it's no wonder that things like "glass breaking" from "In The Closet" are heard in Carnival Night and Launch Base, while a sample from "Jam" is in Carnival Night. Ice Cap, Act 2 was thought to be influenced by "Who Is It", until Brad's earlier work surfaced. Anyway, that's quite an interesting story: Brad Buxer assembles a team which records music in some ways inspired by one MJ album. Later, the same team is credited on another MJ album – HIStory. Without C. Cirocco Jones, though. So, those 41 compositions from Buxer's team are something like a "lost" album. A missing link between "Dangerous" and "HIStory".
I've been checking if there's anything new about making of Sonic 3's soundtrack and it seems that those things were not mentioned in this topic: 1. Brad Buxer says "Jam's in there" at 20:15 here: Well, I guess this is a confirmation of sorts that they used a sample from "Jam" in Carnival Night. 2. Hisashi Suzuki is the one who suggested to Michael the idea of composing music for Sonic 3. 3. Michael Jackson and Brad Buxer's team actually met with members of SEGA Sound Team in Los Angeles. Last two pieces of information are detailed in Mayumi Nina Sakazaki's book "Memories of Michael Jackson." Some parts of that book were translated and quoted in an article here on Sonic Retro. Next time someone interviews Brad Buxer, I hope they will ask why he decided to remix a track from his band. Also, what about that one song Michael made for the game – was it included? Anyway, Sonic 3 (the movie) features MJ's song... kind of. Even if it's a cover of "I Want You Back" by Jackson 5 in Japanese, still it's a possible reference to MJ's contribution to Sonic 3 (the game).
As a longtime MJ and Sonic fan, that was a great interview! There was another interesting tidbit in that interview when he was asked about unreleased album tracks. The host asked if he had copies of the unreleased tracks he did with MJ (I think there were 9 out of 40) and Buxer said it was a very sensitive issue and briefly paused. He did say that after MJ passed away, Buxer gave MJ's estate all the materials that MJ had ownership in, but strongly implied that he kept copies for himself. Knowing how litigious and vicious MJ's estate can be, it makes sense that none of the composers want to discuss the topic (aside from acknowledging their participation)... let alone releasing any of their demo tracks. Talk about a legal headache.
If Brad remembers correctly and "Hard Times" was indeed recorded in 1985, then it turns 40 this year. It's the earliest known Sonic-related song. So I decided to make a video about "Hard Times" / Ice Cap and other songs appearing in Sonic 3: "Jam" (sampled in Carnival Night), "Stranger In Moscow" (early version is in the credits). Other tunes by Michael Jackson / Brad Buxer team are also featured: Competition Menu, Knuckles Theme, Mini-Boss, Launch Base. In total, 10 tracks. If we don't count Knuckles Theme (which is a part of Mini-Boss music) and Act 2 remixes, then we have even less music from MJ / BB team: 6. SEGA used only a small number of 41 cues made by the team. Why only 6 (or 10) were included in the game? Were those 35 (or 31) tracks used anywhere else, like the one that evolved into "Stranger In Moscow"? I don't know – it's still a mystery. Maybe one day we will learn that another song by Michael Jackson was based on one of unused Sonic 3 cues. Or we will have a confirmation that Knuckles / Mini-Boss themes borrow things from "Blood On The Dance Floor" (I made a reference to that in the video). After all, the song was recorded in 1991 and Brad Buxer was responsible for drum programming. Perhaps he decided to implement parts of MJ songs here and there, plus one of his own songs – "Hard Times." Let's look at the influences, possible connections, and future use of music from Sonic 3: ??? –> Competition Menu –> ??? Blood On The Dance Floor –> Knuckles Theme –> Mini-Boss Entrance of the Gladiators, Jam –> Carnival Night –> ??? Hard Times –> Ice Cap –> ??? ??? –> Launch Base –> ??? Brad's demo –> Ending Credits Theme –> Stranger In Moscow Competition Menu is the only song from the list with no samples. And Launch Base music is without any obvious influences, and it was not used anywhere else, as far as I know. It features more samples than other MJ / BB tracks: voice ("Go!"), breaking glass, various types of drums. It seems to me that Competition Menu and Launch Base are two opposites: no samples / heavy use of them. Like one track was recorded early on ("Let's see what we can do with the hardware") and another – later, when they found out which sounds are supported on Mega Drive ("Let's use as many samples as possible"). Anyway, let's get back to the video. It features excerpts from relatively recent interviews with Brad. First one is from a radio show. I used footage of a place which reminds me of Ice Cap. Also, I tried to restore concept art for a winter level, that was shown briefly in 1994 (MTV's Rock The Rock: Sonic & Knuckles). There is another picture at the end of the video – that's my version of a possible Sky Sanctuary concept art. It was also seen only once – at Tokyo Joypolis, during Sonic's 20th anniversary celebration in 2011. I don't know why SEGA did not release any of those images in an artbook or in a game compilation. That's why I had redrawn them myself. Because I love Sonic 3 very much. It was the first video game I ever played. It made me a Sonic fan and later – a fan of Michael Jackson. I have a special connection to that game, its soundtrack and development history. That's why I used footage from various periods of my life – to show that Sonic 3 was there for me – during good times, during hard times... Speaking of "Hard Times" / Ice Cap. Usually, people create mash-ups and remixes, using Act 1 music. So I decided to include Act 2 in the video. All MJ / BB tracks appear there in one form or another. Intro for credits theme is even played by Brad Buxer. I wish there was an elegant solution for releasing Sonic 3 soundtrack. Like, in various versions of Sonic CD you can choose between Japanese and American soundtracks. Or you can play Sonic 3D for Mega Drive if you prefer one OST, or the Saturn version if you like another OST more... My point is: CD, 3, 3D could have been a trilogy of Sonic games with two sets of OSTs. Michael and Brad were not happy with how Mega Drive sounded? Then SEGA could have kept the original music by its sound team, Cube and Opus corporations for MD version. And later re-release Sonic 3 for platforms with CD-drives. That way, all 41 cues could have been used, with no need to replace music recorded earlier and trying to adapt various samples to MD hardware... We still don't know the whole story that happened behind the scenes. We get a little bit of information now and then. Brad mostly mentions Sonic 3 when he talks about "Stranger In Moscow." However, he adds more details with each new interview, like the number of tracks his team produced, or one of the cues being made with Michael... He mentioned "Hard Times" and "Jam" in 2022 and 2024 respectively. It would be great if he revealed more about MJ's track – by which level it was inspired, for example. And why SEGA only used a small selection of songs if the team recorded, it seems, a full soundtrack for Sonic 3 & Knuckles. There is a possibility of existence of Flying Battery music by MJ / BB team, as that level was a part of Sonic 3 for some time. And let's not forget "The Water" (stages 2 & 3) by Brad and C. Cirocco Jones. It could have been, perhaps, Hydro City's music. But it was not used, even though Jones is credited in the game. There are many questions left unanswered about Sonic 3. The situation with music is complicated not only because of MJ / BB team's involvement, but also because there are still no proper credits for other teams' contributions. If SEGA can't use certain tracks and provide information about who composed what, then what prevents the company to release concept art? I know that it's another topic, but still – there were lots of opportunities: Generations (2011), 25th Anniversary Artbook (2017), Origins (2022)... Oh well, at least the last compilation featured some Sonic 3 sketches. Let's be grateful for that and hope that we will see more development materials in the future.
If we're talking licensed songs, then Don't Stop Me Now predates that, though that's getting into the weeds and outside the scope of the topic here.
The decision to have a Jackson 5 song in the Sonic 3 Movie was strategic. I knew something from MJ was going to make it in the movie to throw off internet searches. The thing is. They were too late. We know so much more now compared to Qjimbo’s 2006 Michael Jackson in Sonic 3 video.
I don't think it was an SEO strategy. Paramount & SEGA would have had to negotiate the song synchronisation license with the Jackson estate, and they could say no given past relations. Wasn't the case. And licensing a song to throw off SEO is really unheard of.
also it's in Japanese. they likely had to go ask for license for whoever owned the cover too, as JP singers own vocal performances (this is why we haven't had a remix of You Can Do Anything with vocals).
Wouldn't that be like saying Tricky by Run DMC in Sonic 2 was to throw off searches of their Peter Piper sample being used in Launch Base Zone?
